Discussion:
What can Stern do to save their Pinball company?
(too old to reply)
HansFrans
2008-12-04 21:13:44 UTC
Permalink
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?

All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Joe Grenuk
2008-12-04 21:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Selling more games at a higher margin would be excellent.

Having said that, that question is best asked of the guy that owns the
company. It's his business, and nobody can run it like we can.
r***@cinci.rr.com
2008-12-04 21:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
People need to support the operators. The operators buy most of the
new machines, here and overseas. If you don't go out and pay to play
there machines they won't stay in business. The HUO market is a very
small part of Stern Pinball. Face it the world economy is in real bad
shape and I'm not sure there is anything that can be done now.

Rob H
John Bigbooty
2008-12-05 18:12:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@cinci.rr.com
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
People need to support the operators. The operators buy most of the
new machines, here and overseas. If you don't go out and pay to play
there machines they won't stay in business. The HUO market is a very
small part of Stern Pinball. Face it the world economy is in real bad
shape and I'm not sure there is anything that can be done now.
Rob H
I can't support the operators if I can't find them. I live in a large
city, Atlanta, and pins are almost non-existent. It annoys the hell
out of me that the large local arcade names itself "Flippers" but has
ZERO pinballs.

Mark
Atlanta GA
Bryan Kelly
2008-12-04 21:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Dude, I'm sorry, but this horse is dead!!!!

Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
Home of the EXECUTIVE Pin Footie http://www.pinfooties.com
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
HansFrans
2008-12-04 21:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryan Kelly
Dude, I'm sorry, but this horse is dead!!!!
Bryan (CARGPB 14)http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
Home of the EXECUTIVE Pin Footie  http://www.pinfooties.com
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The horse is not dead its still in the stables, but soon it will be
dead if things don't change. The more brain storming and suggestions
to help solve the problem the better. Think of your self as an outside
consultant. What would you do differantly.

For me I would go back to producing 2 or 3 finished titles a year. I
would go for the Sponge BOB, Scobby Doo or Peanuts license that
appeals to young kids as well as Adults with money. I would support
the operators and try to improve upon technology and I would add more
smaller distributors and try to penetrate the home market. I would not
come out with 24.

1. CSI Sorry Crime themes are not what parents want their children to
watch or play!
2. WOF, Appeals to people that are still watching the show. 70+.
3. Indiana jones, Well that is a rehash of Frankenstein, GnR,
Spiderman, and Harley Davidson. No thought process involved on this
pin. Yes they did put those parts into the protoype
4. Dark Knight, Rehash of LOTR, Spiderman. and nice coffee can.

Don't get me wrong. Stern has made some kickass machines and they are
in my basement, runs on those machine where 3000+

1. Spiderman
2. Shrek,
3. LOTR
4. TSPP
goatdan
2008-12-04 23:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
1. CSI Sorry Crime themes are not what parents want their children to
watch or play!
Pinball is not just for kids! The huge success of the South Park pin
(that helped to doom Pin2000) is a *perfect* example of a pin that
adults probably wouldn't want young kids playing.

Also, I don't know one person under the age of 13 that understands
much about pinball beyond flashing lights. It is those who get older
and understand the rules that stick with it.
HansFrans
2008-12-04 23:26:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
1. CSI Sorry Crime themes are not what parents want their children to
watch or play!
Pinball is not just for kids!  The huge success of the South Park pin
(that helped to doom Pin2000) is a *perfect* example of a pin that
adults probably wouldn't want young kids playing.
Also, I don't know one person under the age of 13 that understands
much about pinball beyond flashing lights.  It is those who get older
and understand the rules that stick with it.
Goatdan,

Love ya man but,I have to disagree on kids under the age of 13 don't
know anything more than flashing lights. I have a three year old
daughter who can catch the ball with the flipper, time the ball and
hit it with the flipper with out whaling away at the flipper buttons,.
she knows how to get Donkey pinball. She begs me to play pinball with
her everyday

My 10 daughter year old knows the complete ruleset to Shrek and loves
Spiderman.

I played in a tournament last week and a youg bou at the age of ten
got 4th place out of 25 adults. This kid's dad is very well know in
the parts community.

Plus these kids under 13 can probably kick my ass on any hard core
console game!
goatdan
2008-12-05 05:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
Post by HansFrans
1. CSI Sorry Crime themes are not what parents want their children to
watch or play!
Pinball is not just for kids!  The huge success of the South Park pin
(that helped to doom Pin2000) is a *perfect* example of a pin that
adults probably wouldn't want young kids playing.
Also, I don't know one person under the age of 13 that understands
much about pinball beyond flashing lights.  It is those who get older
and understand the rules that stick with it.
Goatdan,
Love ya man but,I have to disagree on kids under the age of 13 don't
know anything more than flashing lights. I have a three year old
daughter who can catch the ball with the flipper, time the ball and
hit it with the flipper with out whaling away at the flipper buttons,.
she knows how to get Donkey pinball.  She begs me to play pinball with
her everyday
My 10 daughter year old knows the complete ruleset to Shrek and loves
Spiderman.
I played in a tournament last week and a youg bou at the age of ten
got 4th place out of 25 adults. This kid's dad is very well know in
the parts community.
Plus these kids under 13 can probably kick my ass on any hard core
console game!
I'll admit, I regretted the age that I put down as 13 shortly after
putting it down. For the most part though, unless the kid is exposed
to a place to play before the age of say 10 they aren't interested.

Case in point -- this summer, I may my cousin come over almost every
day for two weeks straight. I think he's 14. When he first started
playing the games, it was because we basically forced him to in a
little friendly competition and he wanted to practice a bit to get
better. So, he asked me some stuff, and I gave him a quick overview
of some of the rules. He played a few times and declared that it was
too tough. This was probably day 3 of the 14 days he visited.

By day 12, he had fallen in love with the game and had asked his dad
if he could put a Whirlwind in the basement if he saved enough money
for one, and had come up with some other games that he really wanted
to try out.

The problem is that he had never seen enough of the game and how it
was played before that point to understand the complexity, and there
really isn't anywhere for him to go to see it. Now that he knows, he
has asked me some questions about other games since that point that he
wants to seek out.

I figure though the age 13 thing is about accurate for the point that
they don't even really recognize pins unless they know someone that
owns one. I work with a group of kids, and that seems to be about the
cut off point for those who instantly know what you are talking about,
and those who are like, "What's that?" if you mention it.

It doesn't apply always, but it highlights the failure to communicate
to people better.
David Marston
2008-12-21 15:09:46 UTC
Permalink
...
The problem is that he [my 14-year-old cousin] had never seen enough of
the game and how it
was played before that point to understand the complexity, and there
really isn't anywhere for him to go to see it. Now that he knows, he
has asked me some questions about other games since that point that he
wants to seek out.
One answer to *that* problem is for more of us to shoot video about
playing technique and put it up on youtube or other websites. Reach out
to the target audience via media they already use. Some video clips will
be better quality than others, but the Web has ways to sort them out, so
it's okay to try different presentations. Make a video that is specific
to one game/title or one technique, or whatever you think would address
the lack of understanding.

Some fraction of the newbies who see those videos would move on to buy
the DVDs on playing technique or find a nearby expert for personal
coaching. But even those who don't will get the message that pinball is
a game of skill.
--
................David Marston at MV
t***@aol.com
2008-12-21 16:28:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Marston
...
The problem is that he [my 14-year-old cousin] had never seen enough of
the game and how it
was played before that point to understand the complexity, and there
really isn't anywhere for him to go to see it.  Now that he knows, he
has asked me some questions about other games since that point that he
wants to seek out.
One answer to *that* problem is for more of us to shoot video about
playing technique and put it up on youtube or other websites. Reach out
to the target audience via media they already use. Some video clips will
be better quality than others, but the Web has ways to sort them out, so
it's okay to try different presentations. Make a video that is specific
to one game/title or one technique, or whatever you think would address
the lack of understanding.
Some fraction of the newbies who see those videos would move on to buy
the DVDs on playing technique or find a nearby expert for personal
coaching. But even those who don't will get the message that pinball is
a game of skill.
--
................David Marston       at MV
I agree. Another approach I mentioned a while back is to put tutorials
IN the machine on an LCD screen.

-Tom

Pinball Basics DVD
s***@gmail.com
2008-12-05 08:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
Post by Bryan Kelly
Dude, I'm sorry, but this horse is dead!!!!
Bryan (CARGPB 14)http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
Home of the EXECUTIVE Pin Footie  http://www.pinfooties.com
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The horse is not dead its still in the stables, but soon it will be
dead if things don't change. The more brain storming and suggestions
to help solve the problem the better. Think of your self as an outside
consultant.  What would you do differantly.
For me I would go back to producing 2 or 3 finished titles a year. I
would go for the Sponge BOB, Scobby Doo or Peanuts license that
appeals to young kids as well as Adults with money. I would support
the operators and try to improve upon technology and I would add more
smaller distributors and try to penetrate the home market. I would not
come out with 24.
1. CSI Sorry Crime themes are not what parents want their children to
watch or play!
2. WOF, Appeals to people that are still watching the show. 70+.
3. Indiana jones, Well that is a rehash of Frankenstein, GnR,
Spiderman, and Harley Davidson. No thought process involved on this
pin. Yes they did put those parts into the protoype
4. Dark Knight, Rehash of LOTR, Spiderman. and nice coffee can.
Don't get me wrong. Stern has made some kickass machines and they are
in my basement, runs on those machine where 3000+
1. Spiderman
2. Shrek,
3. LOTR
4. TSPP
Do you think what we come up with would actually be used?

Andrew
P***@gmail.com
2008-12-04 21:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
I feel its too late. The economy is to blame for Sterns cost cutting.
The phone is ringing alot this season at our store. People wanting to
SELL us games. I used to buy 3-6 of each title. Not anymore:(
Stavs
2008-12-04 21:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Tie a pin into High School Musical and be able to produce it for next
to nothing.

Seriously, like it was said, its a dead horse because people just dont
play pinball anymore, and only a small portion of folks can afford a
NIB machine for home. Hell, people cant afford to pay their mortgages
these days-you think they can buy a pin?
Mike Schudel
2008-12-04 21:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Start making slot machines.
--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI

Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
--------------------------------------------
kjohn
2008-12-04 21:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
NEWS FLASH!

As LTG has said many many times... the coin-op business is a dying
breed. If you can fix that, then maybe Stern will sell more product.

Go play pinball on route.

Have a nice day.

:)

kj
yetterben
2008-12-04 21:41:38 UTC
Permalink
Its been dead for 15 years not are fault you just started playing and
realized this. Who cares if stern goes away. Most of us dont even have
them. Sure its nice to have them around but who really gives a flying
fuck. Is your house gonna lite on fire when they close. Skin gonna
melt off. World gonna end.............. This topic is so BEAT TO FUCK.
you wanna save stern call them and place an order for 20,000 units of
whatever they are running.
HansFrans
2008-12-04 21:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
Its been dead for 15 years not are fault you just started playing and
realized this. Who cares if stern goes away. Most of us dont even have
them. Sure its nice to have them around but who really gives a flying
fuck. Is your house gonna lite on fire when they close. Skin gonna
melt off. World gonna end.............. This topic is so BEAT TO FUCK.
you wanna save stern call them and place an order for 20,000 units of
whatever they are running.
Now that is an intelligent response!
yetterben
2008-12-04 21:46:29 UTC
Permalink
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
chuckster
2008-12-04 21:50:08 UTC
Permalink
WOW!!! Why don't you really tell us how you feel......... Without
the "sugar coating". ;)
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
yetterben
2008-12-04 21:52:31 UTC
Permalink
well man i hate it when people think thay can change what is. If gary
wanted your help he would ask. The man has bin in the biz for what
like 40 years. Pretty sure he would not listen to you if you shit a
golden turd. Its beat to death. the world will not end if he closes.
Just like the world didnt end when a black man became president.
yetterben
2008-12-04 21:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Ltg you know me personally. Has nothing to do with you or stern really
just all these other people who think they are gonna change the world.
Out of all the years how many people tell you what you need to change
well my answer would be i have been here 30+ years i dont need to
change anything. You get my drift :)
gpsdrew
2008-12-04 22:03:42 UTC
Permalink
They need to generate interest in pinball.
This is where they have failed miserably the last 10 years.
It's not that people don't like pinball, it's that most people don't
even know it exists anymore...
my $.02
Drew

Marketing 101...
EVERY Sale counts.
yetterben
2008-12-04 22:06:13 UTC
Permalink
What would bring ball back is si models giving blow jobs whilest we
play :)
HansFrans
2008-12-04 22:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
Ltg you know me personally. Has nothing to do with you or stern really
just all these other people who think they are gonna change the world.
Out of all the years how many people tell you what you need to change
well my answer would be i have been here 30+ years i dont need to
change anything. You get my drift :)
I get it that Gary doesn't want to change and that will be his down
fall. Gary is in desperate times now and I do not see CSI, saving the
company from going under. I feel 24 would be a mistake to release.

You might be surprised that people can change when people stand behind
them and support them vs kicking them to the curb. Especially in these
times. Gary did not want to lay people off, he had to, to keep the
company going. That in itself is a change, wither people view it as
bad or good. I view it as good. It sucks that people were laid off,
but it is good that he is looking at things differantly and trying to
adjust.

Lloyd is right that new blood is needed. Not saying I am it, nor do I
want to think that I can save this company, but I will try to help out
until they close their doors.

Been Playing pinball since 1970.
yetterben
2008-12-04 22:23:53 UTC
Permalink
There is nothing anyone can do. Sad to say it but is the truth. No on
plays to play. Soda chips and sandwiches is what makes ops money now.
I wish the best for stern but more so than that i wish gary stern well
as a person not his company just like Ltg i would rather see the two
of them on a beach with hot ass bitches everywhere living the golden
years rather than worrying about what to do now. So many people on
here are just worried about where they are gonna get there new toys
and look what i got and i am gonna get ones of these. Fuck go buy an
old f-body and redo it if you need a new hobby. So many people are
just so selfish on here and worried about themselves. There are also
alot of good people on here. i have met a ton since i have been here.
Its just over and all we can do is work with what we have and continue
to support the people who have been here for along time. There is
nothing people here can think of that gary and his fincial staff has
brought to his attention.
yetterben
2008-12-04 22:26:37 UTC
Permalink
I am very old world i am probably the biggest fascist you will ever
meet. BUT i give a fuck there just comes a time in America or wherever
you are when you realize i need to stop worrying about what could be
and worry about what is.

My whole point is stern is stern and what will be will be.
yetterben
2008-12-04 22:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Please also excuse my remedial spelling and grammar. Sometimes my
brain thinks faster than my fingers function.
brokenvette
2008-12-04 22:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
well man i hate it when people think thay can change what is. If gary
wanted your help he would ask. The man has bin in the biz for what
like 40 years. Pretty sure he would not listen to you if you shit a
golden turd. Its beat to death. the world will not end if he closes.
Just like the world didnt end when a black man became president.
Yea but it might soon. LOL. You put it out there, you cant not expect
someone to bite.
Mighty Chris
2008-12-04 22:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Manufacturing in the whole country is down right now. Lots and lots
and lots of jobs being cut. Stern cutting back should be viewed as a
sign that they are doing what they need to do to weather this storm
and come through the other side ready to crank out product when
there's more money out there to buy it.

Very premature to say they're going under, IMHO.

Chris
HansFrans
2008-12-04 22:22:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
obviously, with your passion and language you give a F#%K. If you
didn't care you would't be responding like your are!

I am glad there are people in this world that do give a F@%k and who
do think they can make a differance. If we all had your attitude, I
beleive we would not be having this converstaion because the world
would have been destroyed a long time ago.
slingshot
2008-12-04 22:29:08 UTC
Permalink
I understand your aggravation over the "save Stern" topics, however I take
exception to your 'nobody gives a shit if they close' attitude. While I've
shifted my pin spend in other directions since Stern decided they don't care
much for the home user, I sure as hell don't want them to close. I'm
patiently waiting for a return to the more home-friendly rulesets and hoping
Stern can weather this economic storm with their scaled back approach.
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
yetterben
2008-12-04 22:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by slingshot
I understand your aggravation over the "save Stern" topics, however I take
exception to your 'nobody gives a shit if they close' attitude.  While I've
shifted my pin spend in other directions since Stern decided they don't care
much for the home user, I sure as hell don't want them to close.  I'm
patiently waiting for a return to the more home-friendly rulesets and hoping
Stern can weather this economic storm with their scaled back approach.
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
Yeah but why do you care if they close. Is it because you dont have a
source for new machines or is because of all the people that are now
out of work and cant find jobs. I am not trying to come off like an
ass trust me i am one of the nicest people you could meet. But i think
alot of people are in this for the wrong reason. I think most only
care about THERE LOSS. Not Everyone else's loss. home market is shit
for stern 20 percent of a 3,000 run is only 600 machines thats not
much in the grand scheme of things. It actually hurts them more than
anything.

I think everyone is in a up roar because they think they do there part
buy purchasing a new machine. Thats not there part there part is go to
the arcade and drop 50 bucks a week in a machine like we did in are
youth.
HansFrans
2008-12-04 22:47:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
Post by slingshot
I understand your aggravation over the "save Stern" topics, however I take
exception to your 'nobody gives a shit if they close' attitude.  While I've
shifted my pin spend in other directions since Stern decided they don't care
much for the home user, I sure as hell don't want them to close.  I'm
patiently waiting for a return to the more home-friendly rulesets and hoping
Stern can weather this economic storm with their scaled back approach.
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
Yeah but why do you care if they close. Is it because you dont have a
source for new machines or is because of all the people that are now
out of work and cant find jobs. I am not trying to come off like an
ass trust me i am one of the nicest people you could meet. But i think
alot of people are in this for the wrong reason. I think most only
care about THERE LOSS. Not Everyone else's loss. home market is shit
for stern 20 percent of a 3,000 run is only 600 machines thats not
much in the grand scheme of things. It actually hurts them more than
anything.
I think everyone is in a up roar because they think they do there part
buy purchasing a new machine. Thats not there part there part is go to
the arcade and drop 50 bucks a week in a machine like we did in are
youth.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I am in it because I having been playing pinball since 1970, I have a
passion for it, turned it into a business and hate to see something
that I enjoy dissapear. I do drop quarters. I rarely sell new
machines do to a few distibutors giving the machine away at ridiculous
prices. No money to be made. That is Stern's fault! Plus they will not
allow me to be a distributor. that is why there is a black market on
New Stern for $3850.

I enjoy seing them turn out new machines and if its to my liking I
will support them and buy one. I have bought over 8 NIB machines from
them so I do feel I support them. Nothing wrong with making money. If
we didn't we would be bartering all day at the local market!
slingshot
2008-12-04 23:20:27 UTC
Permalink
I think there is room in the cycle for both arcade players and the
enthusiast who likes to have a machine at home (possibly even purchasing
from the route owners). I myself have many machines at home but still drop
lots of bucks whenever I cross one in the wild. I've always thought the
approach that discounts the home buyer is ridiculously short-sighted - for
many reasons that have been beat to death on other threads - but I do
concede that apparently Gary agrees with you.

... and the "Yeah but why do you care..." point is a bit off base. This is
an enthusiast forum after all. Of course I care if the last supplier goes
away. I also care about the hardship it would impose upon those directly
involved in the process. I wouldn't wish that hardship on anyone.
Post by slingshot
I understand your aggravation over the "save Stern" topics, however I take
exception to your 'nobody gives a shit if they close' attitude. While I've
shifted my pin spend in other directions since Stern decided they don't care
much for the home user, I sure as hell don't want them to close. I'm
patiently waiting for a return to the more home-friendly rulesets and hoping
Stern can weather this economic storm with their scaled back approach.
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
Yeah but why do you care if they close. Is it because you dont have a
source for new machines or is because of all the people that are now
out of work and cant find jobs. I am not trying to come off like an
ass trust me i am one of the nicest people you could meet. But i think
alot of people are in this for the wrong reason. I think most only
care about THERE LOSS. Not Everyone else's loss. home market is shit
for stern 20 percent of a 3,000 run is only 600 machines thats not
much in the grand scheme of things. It actually hurts them more than
anything.

I think everyone is in a up roar because they think they do there part
buy purchasing a new machine. Thats not there part there part is go to
the arcade and drop 50 bucks a week in a machine like we did in are
youth.
T***@gmail.com
2008-12-04 23:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
Post by slingshot
I understand your aggravation over the "save Stern" topics, however I take
exception to your 'nobody gives a shit if they close' attitude.  While I've
shifted my pin spend in other directions since Stern decided they don't care
much for the home user, I sure as hell don't want them to close.  I'm
patiently waiting for a return to the more home-friendly rulesets and hoping
Stern can weather this economic storm with their scaled back approach.
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
Yeah but why do you care if they close. Is it because you dont have a
source for new machines or is because of all the people that are now
out of work and cant find jobs. I am not trying to come off like an
ass trust me i am one of the nicest people you could meet. But i think
alot of people are in this for the wrong reason. I think most only
care about THERE LOSS. Not Everyone else's loss. home market is shit
for stern 20 percent of a 3,000 run is only 600 machines thats not
much in the grand scheme of things. It actually hurts them more than
anything.
I think everyone is in a up roar because they think they do there part
buy purchasing a new machine. Thats not there part there part is go to
the arcade and drop 50 bucks a week in a machine like we did in are
youth.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
First off - agreed on the there/they're/their thing. Come on. Should
be "uproar" and "their part" and "our youth". Sorry, but it's hard to
think you have good answers when you spell like that. It's not
"greta".

Second - if the home market is 20% (???) - I don't know a SINGLE
BUSINESS IN EXISTANCE today that can afford to lose 20% of its
business. How is 20% insignificant? And how did you come up with the
BRILLIANT conclusion that that 20% of sales "hurts them"? More sales
"hurts them"? That really must be a joke. Could you afford to
suddenly make 20% less or pay 20% more for everything? That's the
stupidest argument ever, yet it keeps coming up. In times where
things are SO TOUGH - they can't afford to even lose 5 or 10%. Heck,
we will go out of our way to save 2 cents a gallon on gas. It comes
to less than a dollar savings to fill up a tank, but we make a big
deal out of it. But 20% of Stern's business isn't important? Get a
clue.

T
yetterben
2008-12-04 23:41:53 UTC
Permalink
The point was the 20% of people who buy them for home use are 50% less
likely to go out and find one to play on route. Which in turns hurts
op which in turn hurts stern's bottom dollar. Why pay to play when you
can pay once and play all day long. These machines are made to make
money not to be put in a game room. Maybe you should get a clue. What
do you do for a living........i rebuild fucking engines every day for
a living :) I work for the dying company known as ford.
Rare Hero
2008-12-05 00:00:41 UTC
Permalink
These machines are made to make money not to be put in a game room.
So...should we all get rid of our collections for breaking the
"natural laws of pinball habitat" ?

Don't start the "these machines are meant for..." argument. It's
retarded. We all know locations have dried up. Any sale of a machine
is $$$ in Stern's pocket. I mean...by your logic, should Stern
discourage home use of pinballs since their sole purpose is coin-op
use? C'mon.

Greg
yetterben
2008-12-05 00:04:02 UTC
Permalink
No we should not but 90% of collectors machines have lived a long and
profitable life. Maybe they should just close there doors then to the
industry and make small runs like gene then.
Rare Hero
2008-12-05 00:01:38 UTC
Permalink
i rebuild fucking engines every day for a living :) I work for the dying company known as ford.
Where can I buy one of these "fucking engines" ? That sounds like
fun. :)

Greg
T***@gmail.com
2008-12-05 00:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
The point was the 20% of people who buy them for home use are 50% less
likely to go out and find one to play on route. Which in turns hurts
op which in turn hurts stern's bottom dollar. Why pay to play when you
can pay once and play all day long. These machines are made to make
money not to be put in a game room. Maybe you should get a clue. What
do you do for a living........i rebuild fucking engines every day for
a living :) I work for the dying company known as ford.
Why pay to play when you
Post by yetterben
can pay once and play all day long. These machines are made to make
money not to be put in a game room.
Off the top of my head...... because you're paying FOUR THOUSAND
DOLLARS at a time instead of 75 cents?
People who buy NIB Sterns aren't prohibited from playing on location
either.

Again let's use YOUR numbers. You said they're 50% less likely to
play on location. But the benefit the OP has to Stern is buying a
game. These "hurtful" home buyers are buying a game (like an OP) AND
putting money in a location. Probably not as much because they do own
a game, but come on. You're seriously going to argue that people
dropping FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS for a game as opposed to dropping some
coin into a game occasionally is HURTING?
I can't afford a NIB game. But if/when I want, I can play ALL DAY on
50 cents winning replays. I'm sure most people serious enough to buy
a home game are also that good. Us buying games for home use cuts
out the middle man, sort of. We still have to buy from a Distributor,
but Stern doesn't directly benefit from coins in the cashbox. My
check or Credit Card to a Distributor is coins in Stern's 'cashbox'.

Stern needs to sell machines. I don't give a shit if it's too an
Operator or a home buyer. Nor does Stern. If 5,000 people suddenly
bought NIB games for home and pinball stopped being on location, Stern
would not care. Pinball earning on location helps Stern in the long
run because the Op will possibly buy another pin. But if Ops buying
pins is replaced by households buying them, there's no difference.
And I will contend still that I know of NO OPERATOR who buys or at
least thinks about buying every NIB Stern as much as some of the
collectors on here (Derek comes to mind). The Ops buy 1 pin a year at
best. Home buyers often buy as many as Stern makes, until Stern makes
a stinker like NASCAR or IJ4.

T
yetterben
2008-12-05 00:20:16 UTC
Permalink
This is very true. But in order for that to work they should just lock
it down then and sell it to private people like gene. In any given day
i could put a soda machine on the corner next to a pinball what do you
think is gonna make more at the end of the day. What i think people
fail to realize is its just not lucrative enough to be worthy of the
initial investment. Hence why coin op is dead. I called done of my
local ops the other day to see what he had on route he had a shrek and
ij4. I asked if he is gonna get the new csi. He said not even if i
open the cash box on ij4 and there is 4 grand spilling out. My whole
point was on this thread is its beat to death and i think most people
care for the wrong reason.

I cant afford new games either hell i can barley afford a 1,500 game.
I have to find a way to pinch or maybe drop a few engines or trannies
in peoples cars after work.
Rare Hero
2008-12-05 00:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
I cant afford new games either hell i can barley afford a 1,500 game.
I have to find a way to pinch or maybe drop a few engines or trannies
in peoples cars after work.
I'm glad I didn't find a trannie in my Ford....

Greg
e***@stevemoyersubaru.com
2008-12-05 00:31:59 UTC
Permalink
It seems everyone overlooks the thing that got me into pinball in the
first place:

Pinball Hall of Fame, the Williams Collection for the Wii. A friend
and I started playing it for wii and really liked it and thought... if
we like this, we'll LOVE a real machien. The video game versions were
very well done and actually led to us getting hooked.

6 months later and 16 machines later, we're both seriously hooked.
(Between us we have multiple Williams games and multiple newer Sterns)

They need to tap into the 25+ year olds in the video game market and
pull some of them into the pinball hobby.

A Stern version for the Wii that exposed home users to the many Stern
pins would definitely generate interest in the real machines.

Overall, for Pinball to survive or grow, it needs a serious marketing
push to generate new interest in low cost ways (ie. a video game for
the Wii that earns money on its own, generates licensing revenue for
the pin company, AND generates new hobbyist who later by pins), and it
needs to target the right people--people like me who used to be video
gamers but can't find the time to play for 30 hours a week any more.
I can find an hour or so each week to play pins at home, and now that
I'm into it, I'd definitely drop some money in a route machine if I
were ever to actually see one.

Why not do some product placement? Have the star in a blockbuster
movie spend a minute or so playing a new Stern. Make it seem "cool"
or "fun" to play pinball. Ashton Kucher played an old pin briefly in
that Vegas movie with Diaz. With just a little tweaking, that scene
could have had a new Stern in the scene (although all new sterns are
licensed which might be tough to get around).

Also the weakness in the coin-op market causes additional weakness.
People don't get interested in pins because there are none around to
play. The few that are around see too little traffic, so those
operators give up and more machines disappear.

I would be willing to bet that if a flood of pinball machines were to
hit an area, you'd see a big spike up in interest. If everywhere you
went there was a pin to play, eventually a lot of people will drop
coins in them and many will get hooked. Right now they are so scarce
that it's just never going to happen. The only public machines I know
of within 15 miles of me are old and buried along the back wall of a
lifeless arcade.

The industry needs at least a little marketing to attract new blood.
There's just no organized attempt to grow the industry. If I were
running a pin company, I would be putting significant effort into
pumping some life back into the coin-op business.

Unfortunately that costs money and takes time to yield results. It
should have been done when times were better.
goatdan
2008-12-05 05:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@stevemoyersubaru.com
I would be willing to bet that if a flood of pinball machines were to
hit an area, you'd see a big spike up in interest.  If everywhere you
went there was a pin to play, eventually a lot of people will drop
coins in them and many will get hooked.  Right now they are so scarce
that it's just never going to happen.  The only public machines I know
of within 15 miles of me are old and buried along the back wall of a
lifeless arcade.
The industry needs at least a little marketing to attract new blood.
There's just no organized attempt to grow the industry.  If  I were
running a pin company, I would be putting significant effort into
pumping some life back into the coin-op business.
Unfortunately that costs money and takes time to yield results.  It
should have been done when times were better.
Agreed, agreed and agreed.

Interesting case study -- I used to work at the University of
Wisconsin Milwaukee and one day I walked into the student union and
was *extremely* surprised to see two rows of 12 pins there with
banners declaring that it was "Pinball Expo!" (I kid you not on the
name, it was literally three days after Expo ended in 2006). I
actually had nothing to do with it, which made me really interested
who did but I never found that out. Anyway, they contacted one of the
operators for three days to stick these 12 games in the union and let
people play for free. Everything from a brand new, just unboxed POTC
to an EM Surf Champ was there for people to play.

I was interested in just sort of hanging out and hearing what people
had to say about the whole thing. A ton of people were surprised by
it and declared things like, "Wow! This is great! I haven't seen
games like this in years!" and "We need more of these around here,
they're so much fun!" The games all had lines (well, all except the
poor X-Files game that was there which no one ever finished a game on
that I saw, I swear), and they were played constantly. People were
amazed by SWE1 and that monitor. They LOVED POTC which often had a
big line to play. The EMs had some good competitions going. It was
all really fun to see.

About a month later, the pinball machine at the student union got
joined by a second one. Both of them had more people playing then I
had ever seen before, and I used to play the one pin on route there a
ton (it's where I fell in love with AP!)

I really don't think it would take that much, but people need to know
these games still exist and they are out there. For whatever reason,
after the introduction of TOPS which seems to have been a LOT less
pushed lately to me, Stern seems to have given up on the attempting to
give operators and players new reasons to play the games. They expect
the operators and locations to get the new players to notice the
games, and it doesn't work that way.

While I'm unfortunately feeling more and more like the demise of
pinball is among us -- and if Stern closes up, no one is coming in to
save and and I would also expect a complete end to video arcade games
in the *very* near future -- I don't feel it is because of a lack of
interest at this point in time. I think there was a lull in interest
for a bit caused by an oversaturation of the arcade market in the
early 2000s with more equipment than players, I think the novelty is
there and it could be geared for a comeback. I just fear that it
won't.
PeterGEvans
2008-12-05 16:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Eric beat me to the punch about releasing video game versions of the
Stern games. I said the same thing in a previous posting too, but
I'll say it again here. The physics engine in those games is about 99+
% accurate now, and is a very good representation. But, it isn't a
replacement for the real thing. It actually makes you want the real
thing even more. I have won over several of my friends with that exact
same game. It also helped encourage me to go out and buy my first pin
for my home.

If anyone at Stern is actually reading this please pass the word onto
Gary that he could sell LOTR, S-M, or Shrek pinball video games for
$20 - $30 a pop easily (individually, not as a collection). The
Williams games didn't have that kind of earning potential as video
games because they don't have a recognizable licensed theme. Hence
the reason they were sold as a collection and for $20 - $30.

The youth of the world need to be reintroduced to pinball, and the Wii
is a very good avenue for that. Having a virtual version at home
gives kids a chance to learn the rule sets and objectives of the
game. The instructions walk-throughs that are provided really set
that game apart from everything else out there.

I know there are free illegal pin virtualizations on the web, but they
just aren't as good. They are also difficult for the average computer
user to install and play. But everyone can drop a disc in the Wii and
click and point.

"Pinball Hall of Fame - LOTR Pinball" for the Wii... I'll take one,
who else? How many of you would give it as a gift to kids, grandkids,
nieces, or nephews? (OK, how about S-M or Shrek?)
Richard Young Sr.
2008-12-05 20:41:25 UTC
Permalink
I second that idea !

"Pinball Hall of Fame - Wii... with Sterns top selling titles. If all
Gary has to invest is his existing code/rights. Assuming he wouldn't
have to get the rights from the movie studios again/ or just cut them in
for a percentage.

I'd by one.

However I wonder if the last Pinball Hall of Fame made a profit?

Rich
And I own 3 of his top pins currently.
Post by PeterGEvans
Eric beat me to the punch about releasing video game versions of the
Stern games. I said the same thing in a previous posting too, but
I'll say it again here. The physics engine in those games is about 99+
% accurate now, and is a very good representation. But, it isn't a
replacement for the real thing. It actually makes you want the real
thing even more. I have won over several of my friends with that exact
same game. It also helped encourage me to go out and buy my first pin
for my home.
If anyone at Stern is actually reading this please pass the word onto
Gary that he could sell LOTR, S-M, or Shrek pinball video games for
$20 - $30 a pop easily (individually, not as a collection). The
Williams games didn't have that kind of earning potential as video
games because they don't have a recognizable licensed theme. Hence
the reason they were sold as a collection and for $20 - $30.
The youth of the world need to be reintroduced to pinball, and the Wii
is a very good avenue for that. Having a virtual version at home
gives kids a chance to learn the rule sets and objectives of the
game. The instructions walk-throughs that are provided really set
that game apart from everything else out there.
I know there are free illegal pin virtualizations on the web, but they
just aren't as good. They are also difficult for the average computer
user to install and play. But everyone can drop a disc in the Wii and
click and point.
"Pinball Hall of Fame - LOTR Pinball" for the Wii... I'll take one,
who else? How many of you would give it as a gift to kids, grandkids,
nieces, or nephews? (OK, how about S-M or Shrek?)
John Bigbooty
2008-12-08 15:40:10 UTC
Permalink
While I like the idea of Stern pinball for the Wii, XBOX, PS and/or
PC, Stern would definitely have to pony up more money for licensing
fees.

Mark
Atlanta GA


On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:41:25 -0500, "Richard Young Sr."
Post by Richard Young Sr.
I second that idea !
"Pinball Hall of Fame - Wii... with Sterns top selling titles. If all
Gary has to invest is his existing code/rights. Assuming he wouldn't
have to get the rights from the movie studios again/ or just cut them in
for a percentage.
I'd by one.
However I wonder if the last Pinball Hall of Fame made a profit?
Rich
And I own 3 of his top pins currently.
Post by PeterGEvans
Eric beat me to the punch about releasing video game versions of the
Stern games. I said the same thing in a previous posting too, but
I'll say it again here. The physics engine in those games is about 99+
% accurate now, and is a very good representation. But, it isn't a
replacement for the real thing. It actually makes you want the real
thing even more. I have won over several of my friends with that exact
same game. It also helped encourage me to go out and buy my first pin
for my home.
If anyone at Stern is actually reading this please pass the word onto
Gary that he could sell LOTR, S-M, or Shrek pinball video games for
$20 - $30 a pop easily (individually, not as a collection). The
Williams games didn't have that kind of earning potential as video
games because they don't have a recognizable licensed theme. Hence
the reason they were sold as a collection and for $20 - $30.
The youth of the world need to be reintroduced to pinball, and the Wii
is a very good avenue for that. Having a virtual version at home
gives kids a chance to learn the rule sets and objectives of the
game. The instructions walk-throughs that are provided really set
that game apart from everything else out there.
I know there are free illegal pin virtualizations on the web, but they
just aren't as good. They are also difficult for the average computer
user to install and play. But everyone can drop a disc in the Wii and
click and point.
"Pinball Hall of Fame - LOTR Pinball" for the Wii... I'll take one,
who else? How many of you would give it as a gift to kids, grandkids,
nieces, or nephews? (OK, how about S-M or Shrek?)
s***@me.com
2008-12-08 16:00:44 UTC
Permalink
There is no way you could sell each game for $30 for each game. His
best bet would be release at least 3 games on the XBLA for $15 max.
Then sell add games for $5 for each game. He could potentially make a
decent amount of money off it.

The license rights would have to be renegotiated as this is a
completely different platform.
t***@gmail.com
2008-12-21 23:34:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@me.com
There is no way you could sell each game for $30 for each game. His
best bet would be release at least 3 games on the XBLA for $15 max.
Then sell add games for $5 for each game. He could potentially make a
decent amount of money off it.
The license rights would have to be renegotiated as this is a
completely different platform.
I can tell you what Gary Stern will respond to the idea: "we did not
include the right to produce videogames in our (expired) license. I
like the idea, but the costs of lawyers to negotiate such agreement
will exceed the earnings, so we're not even gonna try."

I still don't understand why such rights (and others) are negotiated
instantly when discussing a license. Doesn't sound that smart to me.

Tom

m***@msn.com
2008-12-05 03:16:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
Everyone is so fucking sick and tired of people everyday re hashing
the same old shit. WHO GIVES A FUCK. you are passionate go work for
some politician. We cant do anything no one can who cares really i
mean who really gives a shit if they close. plenty of machines out
there to buy and collect. you wanna wish gary well tell thanks for the
run and good luck. See nobody gives a fuck about stern they care about
are they gonna make me another precious machine waaa waaaa cry cry.
You want stern to do better hope for him to close his doors while he
still has some money left to retire on.
yetterben, why do you use your kind of language to put a point across?
Lloyd Olson
2008-12-04 21:51:42 UTC
Permalink
I care if they go away. I'm kind of dedicated to pinball. And new Stern pins
are about the only thing earning. Williams games are just getting older and
losing appeal rapidly in the commercial setting. LTG :)
Post by yetterben
Its been dead for 15 years not are fault you just started playing and
realized this. Who cares if stern goes away. Most of us dont even have
them. Sure its nice to have them around but who really gives a flying
fuck. Is your house gonna lite on fire when they close. Skin gonna
melt off. World gonna end.............. This topic is so BEAT TO FUCK.
you wanna save stern call them and place an order for 20,000 units of
whatever they are running.
Mark Clayton
2008-12-04 21:43:08 UTC
Permalink
A time machine would help.

-Mark
-----
http://pinballpal.com
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
s***@gmail.com
2008-12-05 08:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Clayton
A time machine would help.
-Mark
-----http://pinballpal.com
My brother has one for sale...

Andrew
John in WI
2008-12-04 21:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Gary Stern has far more at stake than the RGP collective. Do you really
think we're going to come up with anything he hasn't considered?
Lloyd Olson
2008-12-04 21:52:30 UTC
Permalink
New blood. New blood. New blood. The old ways and the old guys weren't
getting it done. Time for new blood. LTG :)
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
yetterben
2008-12-04 21:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Fuck i am dedicated to pinball too i drive 3 hoursd round trip to go
visit Ltg and show my support.
j***@comcast.net
2008-12-04 21:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Agree this is a rehash, but selling direct to operators and homes is
the only way that they could increase margins and decrease price
without other innovations.
Lloyd Olson
2008-12-04 21:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Ben is dedicated. LTG :)
Post by yetterben
Fuck i am dedicated to pinball too i drive 3 hoursd round trip to go
visit Ltg and show my support.
Les Manley
2008-12-04 22:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Other than getting the youth of today interested in pinball again to
increase demand and visibility of their products, I don't think there
is anything they can do. Putting out a *really good* pinball is not
going to do it by a long shot.
i***@yahoo.com
2008-12-04 22:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
rig new machines to give cash tickets for high score, route at indian
casinos across the country.

Or switch to making slot machines.

You did say All ideas...
HansFrans
2008-12-04 22:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@yahoo.com
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
rig new machines to give cash tickets for high score, route at indian
casinos across the country.
Or switch to making slot machines.
You did say All ideas...
May be they need to get into slots,more redemption games and do twoto
three pins a year.
yetterben
2008-12-04 22:41:32 UTC
Permalink
There best bet would be to make only one pin a year. or one pin every
two years or something. People dont even have a chance to get tired of
the old machine before the new one comes out.
HansFrans
2008-12-04 22:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
There best bet would be to make only one pin a year. or one pin every
two years or something. People dont even have a chance to get tired of
the old machine before the new one comes out.
That is the best advice yet. And I agree with you 100%. Don't you
think that putting 6 machine out over the past year an a half has
saturated the market with titles. Ops ony buy on average two titles a
year. Ops don't want CSI, because, Batman, Ij4, Shek, Family guy,
Wheel of Fortune, Rerun of Simpson's, Spiderman, siderman Black
edition, World Poker Tour all came out within the last two years. Am I
missing one !
s***@gmail.com
2008-12-05 08:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
Post by yetterben
There best bet would be to make only one pin a year. or one pin every
two years or something. People dont even have a chance to get tired of
the old machine before the new one comes out.
That is the best advice yet. And I agree with you 100%. Don't you
think that putting 6 machine out over the past year an a half has
saturated the market with titles.  Ops ony buy on average two titles a
year. Ops don't want CSI, because, Batman, Ij4, Shek, Family guy,
Wheel of Fortune, Rerun of Simpson's, Spiderman, siderman Black
edition, World Poker Tour all came out within the last two years. Am I
missing one !
What does this business model look like? 1 a year seems like another
fast way to the end of the line.

Andrew
Rare Hero
2008-12-04 22:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetterben
There best bet would be to make only one pin a year.
Your best bet would be to learn the difference between "there",
"their", and "they're" :)

Greg
cody chunn
2008-12-04 22:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Cut a deal with Sony Pictures, Dreamworks, whomever has the flicks most
suited for pinball adaptation that Stern plans to make. Four pins per
theater per opening. Higher volume and quicker turn-around. National
coverage service to ensure best possible condition for the public. Good
trade-in system for the ops.

Build up movie lobbies with 16-18 of the latest pins, cycling one out every
few months as profit dictates.

Make playfield/backglass easily swappable so games can be cycled less
expensively.

Pinball survives in perpetuity!

Please hold your applause.

PS: When the backglasses get replaced with LCDs like Lloyd says, they can
run previews while in attract.
--
-cody
--CARGPB4
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
HansFrans
2008-12-04 22:54:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by cody chunn
Cut a deal with Sony Pictures, Dreamworks, whomever has the flicks most
suited for pinball adaptation that Stern plans to make. Four pins per
theater per opening. Higher volume and quicker turn-around. National
coverage service to ensure best possible condition for the public. Good
trade-in system for the ops.
Build up movie lobbies with 16-18 of the latest pins, cycling one out every
few months as profit dictates.
Make playfield/backglass easily swappable so games can be cycled less
expensively.
Pinball survives in perpetuity!
Please hold your applause.
PS: When the backglasses get replaced with LCDs like Lloyd says, they can
run previews while in attract.
--
-cody
--CARGPB4
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nice:)
mr tobias
2008-12-04 23:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
I fear it's too late, but maybe, just maybe someone else will take up
the torch when Gary calls it a day, so here goes:

The basic concept of pinball is just fine. Pinball like pool is a
physical game, and pool hasn't died a death, and that's just another
form of knocking a ball round a table. But pinball needs to change
because unlike pool it embraces technology, and technology has moved
on just as the technology that competes with pinball has moved on.

Stern, or any successor, needs to get out of the old ways of thinking
and doing things and have a vision for the future. For starters they
should open their minds and take a long look at some of the things
being done with Future Pinball. You CAN come up with fresh, innovative
designs, and there are some talented new folks around. Build fewer new
models per year, but make them really count by giving them a budget
that allows more innovation. Invite people to submit table designs.
Team up fresh talent with established designers, who are well placed
to weed out things that simply won't work and refine those that will.
Market the product much more, not simply to sell to the home market
but to get folks wanting to play out on location. Only then can you
sell sufficient units at the right price point to make it really pay.

Then maybe they should look at how they sell their product. Is the old
method of selling through established distributors necessarily the
best. Perhaps they need distributors who will take more units, along
with smaller sub-distributors and retailers.

It won't be easy, but who knows.
mickey
2008-12-04 23:20:11 UTC
Permalink
Buy up all of your MINT/HUO pins for what they are really worth and
sell them for what you think they're worth!
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
HansFrans
2008-12-04 23:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by mickey
Buy up all of your MINT/HUO pins for what they are really worth and
sell them for what you think they're worth!
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Huh!
slingshot
2008-12-04 23:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Maybe enhance the ticket spitting capabilities. I have no first-hand
experience, but I understand its pretty limited right now. Need to spit out
tickets immediately upon dropping a credit, then more at scoring intervals
and jackpots. My kids love pins but don't touch them when the redemption
machines are round - specifically because they don't get any tickets.
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Ron Strom
2008-12-05 03:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Maybe Gary doesn't want to save it. Maybe he wants to retire and no one
in the family wants to carry on with pinball. Maybe it's his way of
starting the beginning of the end.

All the dumb speculation and save Stern ideas are not going to influence
his actions one iota.
--
Ron -- CARGPB7 -- (Change "hot" to "ice" to email)
Flipper City Phoenix
2008-12-05 03:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Move the plant to Mexico.

Release only 10 pinball machines a year of each title at 10 grand a
whack!

Design & Sell FINISHED online gaming software?

Quit going with these tv/movie themes & think up something original on
his own.

Design pins to payout money on the spot(or print a cashable ticket) &
sell them big time to Vegas. Every large casino will have to have a
min of 20 of each title. Then us pinheads can work there constantly
shopping them out!
Carrol
Magic Mike
2008-12-05 06:54:09 UTC
Permalink
What's the *purpose* of these same threads???

1. Gary Stern doesn't read RGP.

2. Gary Stern is not in business for collectors.

3. None of you armchair quarterbacks have the money to buy Stern to "save"
it and if you did....you wouldn't! Nobody is *that* stupid!

4. There is no "new" idea for pinball has hasn't already been tried in the
last 50 years.

It it amusing, selfish and sad to know that some of you guys have
actually fooled yourself into believing that pinball can be 'saved' at this
point. The first step in rehabilitation is to admit denial.

Mike
OldTimer
2008-12-05 07:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Hey it's a pinball ng... almost every niggling fix for every machine ever
made is already in google's group archives
(if people would only search) so what else is there really to yammer on
about? ;-)

Sadly by next year the threads will probably be "what COULD have Stern done
to save themselves".
Post by Magic Mike
What's the *purpose* of these same threads???
1. Gary Stern doesn't read RGP.
2. Gary Stern is not in business for collectors.
3. None of you armchair quarterbacks have the money to buy Stern to "save"
it and if you did....you wouldn't! Nobody is *that* stupid!
4. There is no "new" idea for pinball has hasn't already been tried in the
last 50 years.
It it amusing, selfish and sad to know that some of you guys have
actually fooled yourself into believing that pinball can be 'saved' at
this point. The first step in rehabilitation is to admit denial.
Mike
T***@gmail.com
2008-12-05 07:04:20 UTC
Permalink
    What's the *purpose* of these same threads???
1. Gary Stern doesn't read RGP.
2. Gary Stern is not in business for collectors.
3. None of you armchair quarterbacks have the money to buy Stern to "save"
it and if you did....you wouldn't! Nobody is *that* stupid!
4. There is no "new" idea for pinball has hasn't already been tried in the
last 50 years.
    It it amusing, selfish and sad to know that some of you guys have
actually fooled yourself into believing that pinball can be 'saved' at this
point. The first step in rehabilitation is to admit denial.
Mike
Your name is "Magic Mike". Are you into Magic tricks, or the game
magic? What is the *purpose* of that?

T
Craig Tiano
2008-12-05 13:12:28 UTC
Permalink
More T&A on the backglasses and playfield would go a long way...

Honestly, the only way to save themselves is to suddenly change the
attitude of potential patrons to suddenly have an insatiable desire to
play pinball. Whether that's making them more attractive, getting
themes which appeal to target market places, or making a wholesale
change to pinball to make it exciting to video game players.

Craig
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
j***@earthlink.net
2008-12-05 13:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Craig Tiano
More T&A on the backglasses and playfield would go a long way...
Honestly, the only way to save themselves is to suddenly change the
attitude of potential patrons to suddenly have an insatiable desire to
play pinball. Whether that's making them more attractive, getting
themes which appeal to target market places, or making a wholesale
change to pinball to make it exciting to video game players.
Craig
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
I have followed this post and all the other "save Stern" ones,and it's
amazing that so many pinheads have forgotten that pinball was "saved"
in 1999 with the release of Pinball 2000.This is the innovation that
would have saved our beloved passion/hobby.The sales #'s at the time
proved this.Big hit with players and ops.I don't know if it can be re-
engineered and called something different or maybe the Nucore when its
ready can be used by Stern .I think Stern would be wise to check it
out,this is the last real innovation I've seen in this industry.As
Always,Scott
brokenvette
2008-12-05 14:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@earthlink.net
Post by Craig Tiano
More T&A on the backglasses and playfield would go a long way...
Honestly, the only way to save themselves is to suddenly change the
attitude of potential patrons to suddenly have an insatiable desire to
play pinball. Whether that's making them more attractive, getting
themes which appeal to target market places, or making a wholesale
change to pinball to make it exciting to video game players.
Craig
Post by HansFrans
What does Stern need change in order to save their company from going
under?
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.
I have followed this post and all the other "save Stern" ones,and it's
amazing that so many pinheads have forgotten that pinball was "saved"
in 1999 with the release of Pinball 2000.This is the innovation that
would have saved our beloved passion/hobby.The sales #'s at the time
proved this.Big hit with players and ops.I don't know if it can be re-
engineered and called something different or maybe the Nucore when its
ready can be used by Stern .I think Stern would be wise to check it
out,this is the last real innovation I've seen in this industry.As
Always,Scott- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Someone here gave me an idea. Stern shoud sell pins to collages, dorms
and frat houses at cost. That would get kids interested in pinball.
OldTimer
2008-12-05 18:43:04 UTC
Permalink
<***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bbeee285-e59a-4bc5-a330-

I have followed this post and all the other "save Stern" ones,and it's
amazing that so many pinheads have forgotten that pinball was "saved"
in 1999 with the release of Pinball 2000.This is the innovation that
would have saved our beloved passion/hobby.The sales #'s at the time
proved this.Big hit with players and ops.I don't know if it can be re-
engineered and called something different or maybe the Nucore when its
ready can be used by Stern .I think Stern would be wise to check it
out,this is the last real innovation I've seen in this industry.As
Always,Scott


-Actually when the second P2K Star Wars machine shipped sales fell badly.
With a HUGE theme like this not selling well they figured the "novelty
factor" for ops may already be over and the future looked grim. After all if
sales decrease with a title like that how good would other themes fare?

At least that was the thinking at the time. Sure the SW pin played poorly
but they figured with that theme it should at least hold it's own.
don
2008-12-05 14:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Saving pinball is actually an incredibly simple three step process:

Step One:

Get rid of the internet, home video games (console and computer),
satellite and cable TV- in short, all modern entertainment sources.
Get entertainment back to radio, 78 RPM records, books and
magazines, live music and stage shows, B&W movies and pinball.

Step Two:

Fix the economy.

Step three:

Remove the fear that people have of going out to taverns, bowling
alleys, arcades and the like and actually interacting with other human
beings. (Even though violent crime is low, we think that it's worse
than ever because we have it slammed into our heads by the 24 news
cycle.)

Get on it people, we should have this wrapped up by late next week.

Don C.
Bryan Kelly
2008-12-05 15:28:47 UTC
Permalink
BINGO, Don. As far as I'm concerned, that's the biggest reason why
people don't play pinball anymore. There's simply way to many more
exciting ways to spend our spare time and money these days.

After seeing a couple of the games my 23 year old son plays on his
gaming system, I can see why a pinball machine would seem like a
dinosaur to him.

Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
Home of the EXECUTIVE Pin Footie http://www.pinfooties.com
Post by don
Get rid of the internet, home video games (console and computer),
satellite and cable TV- in short, all modern entertainment sources.
Don C.
f***@invalid.invalid
2008-12-05 18:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by don
Get rid of the internet, home video games (console and computer),
satellite and cable TV- in short, all modern entertainment sources.
Get entertainment back to radio, 78 RPM records, books and
magazines, live music and stage shows, B&W movies and pinball.
Fix the economy.
Remove the fear that people have of going out to taverns, bowling
alleys, arcades and the like and actually interacting with other human
beings. (Even though violent crime is low, we think that it's worse
than ever because we have it slammed into our heads by the 24 news
cycle.)
Get on it people, we should have this wrapped up by late next week.
Don C.
I don't play pinball on location (except for a new title once or
twice) because it costs $2 for 3 balls that will drain almost
immediately because little things like flippers don't work.

Cut the price back to 25c and I might be willing to try a location
machine again, but I'm not willing to spend $2 to find out if the
machine works in any mode except attract mode.

Jim
Lloyd Olson
2008-12-05 18:42:48 UTC
Permalink
While I'm a firm believer in you should get a working game or refund, 25¢
won't cut it. 50¢ play is losing money. Unless you can get the cost of the
equipment by 3/4's. At quarter play, the game will never pay for itself, or
justify it's being there.

Beyond the credit dot Williams used, I do wonder if it's time to be able to
hit the start button and major problems are displayed ? For 75¢ or more per
play, if you don't know the location, you should be able to know that
everything is working. LTG :)
Post by f***@invalid.invalid
I don't play pinball on location (except for a new title once or
twice) because it costs $2 for 3 balls that will drain almost
immediately because little things like flippers don't work.
Cut the price back to 25c and I might be willing to try a location
machine again, but I'm not willing to spend $2 to find out if the
machine works in any mode except attract mode.
Jim
Frank Traut
2008-12-05 19:06:20 UTC
Permalink
x-no-archive: yes

Where have I heard such words before? lol

Hark, such angelic concepts below! Refreshing to see there are some
still that get it. I love spinning shellac on a real Victrola, but
33.3's do just fine as well :-) But I get where you're coming from.
33-1/3rd was never designed to sound superior to 78's. Much like mp3's
of today being more convenient than CD's, the modern LP was first
designed as a convenience to those "put out" having to flip sides to
hear another song. I'd add cell phones to the list as well as they are
now used and abused as a worthless form of "entertainment" for many.
Air conditioners could also be included as many believe that was one
of the first reasons to the steady and quick decline of our society.
(Moved people from off their porches and behind closed doors).

Step Two would naturally be repaired by incorporating much of the
other 2 steps. But... bottom line: ain't gonna happen. Most people
are incapable of comprehending the concept of a quality life anymore.
Their standard of metrics (if they even have one) is as corrupt
as the politicians they voted for, the companies that employ them
and the computers they use. I'm reminded of the R.E.M tune: "Can't
get there from here" ;-)

Fun Fact: when watching old B/W movies, go into your TV's menu system
and take the colour all the way down. You'd be surprised at the
difference in picture quality. B/W's movies have a coloured tint
(usually green) when played back on colour sets.

Much like a B/W photo (film OR digital) has a green tint when
processed on colour equipment. <cough> Wal-Mart, <cough> Walgreens,
<hack>, developed on over processed and colour corrected Fuji processes.

About the SWE1 PB2K sales slumps... not hard to predict that one.
In the classic sense, the movie is an abomination that was obviously
geared toward tiny tykes. Today's underdeveloped and undernourished
youth that is already hooked on video gaming and staring at the tele,
breathing through their mouths agape. Many older folks that grew up
with the franchise saw it as a toy or pretend pinball machine. I know
I certainly felt that way about. Then again, I'd rather play a machine
from the 60's. Generational differences were obvious here. To recognise
ADD and medicate, or not. That is the question!

-Frank

www.coinopdreams.com
Post by don
Get rid of the internet, home video games (console and computer),
satellite and cable TV- in short, all modern entertainment sources.
Get entertainment back to radio, 78 RPM records, books and
magazines, live music and stage shows, B&W movies and pinball.
Fix the economy.
Remove the fear that people have of going out to taverns, bowling
alleys, arcades and the like and actually interacting with other human
beings. (Even though violent crime is low, we think that it's worse
than ever because we have it slammed into our heads by the 24 news
cycle.)
Get on it people, we should have this wrapped up by late next week.
Don C.
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