Discussion:
New Stern in Mono?? WTF!
(too old to reply)
alive-cds
2006-01-25 04:10:33 UTC
Permalink
So the new Stern pinball machines will be in Mono! Isn't that a step
backwards?? What does anybody else think? Granted there isn't much
stereo separation anyway with the speakers only 22 inches apart, but
this is 2006! You can buy an iPod shuffle for $90 and it's in stereo,
but a $4K pinball machine isn't?? I just don't get it. One of Stern's
weaknesses was the sound system and they improve it by coming up with
mono sound. The only thing in my house that in mono is my clock radio
and even that I only set to buzzer and never listen to the radio
anymore.
Lloyd Olson
2006-01-25 04:26:37 UTC
Permalink
I envision it in a location with a crowd of people around playing it and
other pins and you have trouble even hearing it, stereo or not. LTG :)
Post by alive-cds
So the new Stern pinball machines will be in Mono! Isn't that a step
backwards?? What does anybody else think? Granted there isn't much
stereo separation anyway with the speakers only 22 inches apart, but
this is 2006! You can buy an iPod shuffle for $90 and it's in stereo,
but a $4K pinball machine isn't?? I just don't get it. One of Stern's
weaknesses was the sound system and they improve it by coming up with
mono sound. The only thing in my house that in mono is my clock radio
and even that I only set to buzzer and never listen to the radio
anymore.
frenchy
2006-01-25 04:30:37 UTC
Permalink
I bet if you hooked the + wires on the speakers on any of the stereo
pinballs, most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference. I
assume my LOTR is supposed to be in stereo, if it's using the old sound
system, but I sure can't tell. Or isn't it? Does anybody have a Stern
or Data East where the stereo just stands out and would really be
missed? I can't recall myself playing one of these games and thinking,
wow, I can really hear that separation. If stereo systems depended on
speakers that were only about a foot apart, it would have flopped in
the 50's.

<<One of Stern's weaknesses was the sound system and they improve it by
coming up with mono sound.>>>

All we've been hearing around here is 'make it sound like DCS!" I
don't know if this does now, but DCS ain't stereo.
g***@yahoo.com
2006-01-25 04:36:22 UTC
Permalink
The game should be in stereo

Stern needs the home market

A new system with better audio would make the game that much more
attractive

What is the point of a "new system" if it doesn't do much of anything
better than the "old system" ... We've been hearing about this system
for years and what does it end up doing?

I am really bearish on the future of Stern Pinball

I think the future is going to be a step back into the past with lots
of great parts getting made up by Nappa and others that will allow us
to re-build the classic WMS games

I wouldn't buy another Stern

I used to really enjoy Elvis on location, but in a home environment, it
just feels so clunky

For just a little bit more money, CH can build you a "brand new" WMS
game

Gary.Arizona
scott
2006-01-25 05:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Gary, I hate to bite into your troll BS.

I have never bashed you in the past, I have had to endure your stupid
coments for years now. But holy shit... I am nothing but BULLISH on
Stern Pinball and I am in the process of selling off my Williams Pins.

Nothing against CH, but you sound like an absolute idiot and an
Absolute ASSHOLE bringing his name up all the time, throwing it around
like it is a STATUS SYMBOL to have a CH restored pin. Almost like the
brothers back in the day when they wore a Cadilac Hood ornament around
their neck. Why doesnt someone get you a picture of CH and you can
wear that around your neck, and show the hole world how your down with
CH.

Who in their right mind basis the credibility of STERN on 1 frickn
game, have you played TSPP.... 1 word... UNBELIEVABLE

Chris, I would shut this guy up.... because anything Gary recomends,
Im against.

this guy was all anti-group think for years now he is all about group
think when everyone else is not. Get A CLUE and try restoring a pin
yourself sometime.

Scott
Detroit
scott
2006-01-25 05:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Sorry people, on the negative rant against the troll... I tried hard
not to byte but I am extremely Happy That Stern is around
and I am very supportive of their work, yes they have had some
missus/duds but they have 2 top ten hits and I see more along the way.

the new system is definately a step in the right direction but it
still falls on the shoulders of the designers and their creations.....

world poker tour looks promising
and their next 2 titles as well Stern looks like they could
rebound after their last 3 pins in a definate Positive direction.

again sorry, and Thank You STern
Scott
g***@yahoo.com
2006-01-25 05:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Hey Scott ...

I am not entitled to my opinions?

Your opinions are all important, but my opinions are "troll opinions"?

Sounds like a 3 year old ...

"My Daddy makes more money than your Daddy, so I am better than you"

I always wonder about anyone who uses the word "troll"

I also wonder about anyone that uses profanity in a public post

That is the real "troll"

If you don't agree with me, do so in a decent manner

As far as Chris goes, I spoke with him on the phone for an hour tonight

He called me ...

take care ...

Gary.Arizona
milt
2006-01-25 05:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by scott
Sorry people, on the negative rant against the troll... I tried hard
not to byte but I am extremely Happy That Stern is around
and I am very supportive of their work, yes they have had some
missus/duds but they have 2 top ten hits and I see more along the way.
I have to agree. I'm glad that Stern is still around also, at least
someone is still making pins. If/when Stern goes, there will be no one
making pins anymore and that would be the end of the new pinball market!
CornCob
2006-01-25 09:42:43 UTC
Permalink
Gary,

I guess you'll have to wait and see what Wayne offers with his 4.1
speaker sound system. I don't know how important the sound system
really is? I play with the WMS tables all of the time in Pinmame and
the balance levels in Windows are bias to the left as I've only 1
speaker inside my computer. It does sound that bad and doesn't seem to
detract from the game (IMHO).

Smart new things from Stern's boardset now include USB firmware
upgrades. Now thats something I'll not miss on my WMS machines;
Pissing around with my EEPROM programmer, mixing ROM images and
wondering why it's not working.

12brightness levels (including off) on the DMD. Who needs LEDs when
Sterns crew work there magic with what we've got.

Coin battery in socket like on PC motherboard. Not like those heavy,
large surface area AA batterys which leak on the PCB as used by the
other manufacturers.

I guess we've got to remember that not all changes to the machine
design are for us as it's easy to see that Stern will save money with
this new design if only by virtue of the fact that theres now less
PCB's to make.

Picture of the new boardset in action:
http://tinyurl.com/bnc67

Ping
Post by g***@yahoo.com
The game should be in stereo
Stern needs the home market
A new system with better audio would make the game that much more
attractive
What is the point of a "new system" if it doesn't do much of anything
better than the "old system" ... We've been hearing about this system
for years and what does it end up doing?
I am really bearish on the future of Stern Pinball
I think the future is going to be a step back into the past with lots
of great parts getting made up by Nappa and others that will allow us
to re-build the classic WMS games
I wouldn't buy another Stern
I used to really enjoy Elvis on location, but in a home environment, it
just feels so clunky
For just a little bit more money, CH can build you a "brand new" WMS
game
Gary.Arizona
nomad
2006-01-25 09:50:08 UTC
Permalink
....I guess you'll have to wait and see what Wayne offers with his 4.1
speaker sound system

You're kidding about this right? We'll have the ability to have a
pinball machine wet-wired into our brains by the time D'wayne produces
a pinball machine;)

nomad
CornCob
2006-01-25 09:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Hey Nomad,

By the sound of some on this post a few have already given up on Stern
just because his new boardset may or maynot be in Mono. Who else is
making a machine for you guys who don't like Mono Sterns?

BTW: I emailed Wayne recently asking if I'll see him at ATEI in London
but no reply as yet and seeing as the show's already started I guess
not. I remember in one of his old posts he said he wants to attend;
Seeing as his 1st machine is to be released this year according to the
publicity on his website then it would have been this year's show he
should have gone to.

Ping
Eric Schmitt
2006-01-25 12:38:09 UTC
Permalink
would it be too much to ask for some close ups?

--Eric
k***@aol.com
2006-01-25 21:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Gary, a few things need to be cleared up for you and others about
Stern's new system. Our new game, WPT (my design) is the first pinball
on the new system.

The system is a huge improvement over the old system, you just don't
know it yet. Here's the highlights:

The game never misses switch hits. You get every point and far fewer
disappointments while playing. This will be noticed, but not by all,
simply because that's the way any pinball machine should work.

Anyone, anywhere can download WPT updates, anytime. Just plug in a
flash rom, press a few buttons, unplug the flash rom and the new
software is installed. The software will be available to download
online. This is a huge advance. No more trips to the distrib for
eproms. Saves operators and owners' money, gas and time.

The system has vastly expanded memory which in turn allows us to create
far MORE of everything, rules, DMD effects, light effects, sounds,
speech, music, and far better and smoother interaction between each of
the above components. The difference is staggering and will be
immediately noticed on WPT.

With the system memory expanded, it allows us to create far BETTER
rules, DMD effects, light effects, sounds, speech, music and physical
action on the playfield. Processing speed seems to be faster, ball
response is faster & sharper, and the play is crisp and smooth. Again,
the difference is absolutely noticeable on WPT. Nothing is skimped-on.
We don't have to eliminate frames from dmd effects, or limit anything
in software. Speech, sound, and music are far better because we are
recording and playing back at higher rates. None of this has been true
to WPT's degree on any system in the past.

The sound system is remarkably better. I touched on reasons why it is
much higher quality, but the system actually working in WPT is
spectacular. Everyone will notice the difference, and I will be
astounded if anyone says they don't like it. Of course, it didn't hurt
that Chris Granner has produced his finest sound package in years, in
both technical and musical terms. I also knew what I wanted to hear
and feel while playing WPT, and he delivered in spades. Keith has had
his input as well, and his timing and sound choreography are superb.
Fidelity is far superior. Crisp highs and big bass. I am slowly going
deaf, but I can hear what's going on in this game far better than any
other, any time... Come to think of it, Korn's BK2K might be the
exception!!

TOPS is included in every WPT. The self-contained tournament system
outputs to the DMD or you can purchase the back-box-top optional large
colored-dot display. Press a few buttons, plug in a switch, and
*Viola'*..any WPT is instantly TOPS ready.

WPT contains multiple languages and multilingual speech in it's memory.
It may help popularize our pins, and we have high hopes for a broader
player base, especially our Spanish-speaking friends. This should be
important to anyone who loves pinball. Expansion of our player base is
key to the health and well-being of pinball, and it's continued
production. It's a great piece of work by Lonnie Ropp.

Every fuse has an LED associated with it, and you can see a blown fuse
at a glance.

No more diodes on coils. I had to live down being famous for putting
the most diodes on backwards of anyone in engineering for years. Glad
they are gone...

I have probably left some things out, but these are the bullet points.
The system isn't stereo, because true stereo means double memory, and
the difference while playing a stereo game is negligible. It has been
tried and tested at Williams, and the truth is, no one cares. There
has never been enough separation between the speakers to fully utilize
stereo. Stereo has never added anything to the coinbox. Good sound
quality and content absolutely adds to the coinbox!!

Lyman Sheats is the champion of the new system, and his work has been
tireless and excellent. Not only is his operating system working very
well; he has created some major improvements in diagnostics and
countless other areas. Most players will never see or appreciate what
he has done in this area, but operators and techs will. Very
importantly, Lyman has been the hardware watchdog, making sure that the
electronics work well and give the best performance of any pinball
system, ever. He has succeeded. Only a few people on rgp might grasp
what it takes to make a new pinball system, (nearly 2-1/2 years of
Lyman's work), especially a system as great as this. Lyman has made a
huge contribution to PINBALL with this system.

Lyman, Keith Johnson, Lonnie, and others have worked like dogs to make
this system great. Lyman has written a completely new operating
system, and it is a beautiful thing. All the programmers had to learn
this new language, and it's my perception that for Keith, it has been
like learning Mandarin in one year with someone busily changing many
word's definitions at the same time as developing a remarkably fun
pinball machine.

Keith's work in this area has been tireless and diligent, and extremely
creative. Keith has been the system guinea pig, finding bugs trying
out Lyman's stuff and has worked closely with Lyman to prove out the
system. He's made a great ruleset that is fun and very original while
accomodating guys like me who don't play that well. (Incidently, Keith
has been instrumental in making WPT my personal favorite to play since
ST:TNG. He's intelligent and very talented, and WPT is probably his
best work. The rules are deep, plentiful and he is writing more rules
as I type this!!! He has been responsive to input as we all have been
on this game, making a very special pinball machine. Working with
Keith has been one of the most fun pinball project experiences in my
career. He never backs down or cheaps-out with his effort. His total
focus is that of a seasoned pinball professional, knowing that
everything he does targets making players happy and satified. His
ruleset is open-ended. It will be tough to master everything he has
created. WPT isn't going to get boring anytime soon.)

Stern Pinball is alive and well both here in Melrose Park, and *here*
in our hearts. We have a bright future, and the new system is a part
of that future. The Stern team has worked very hard to make the best
pinball machine possible. Everyone from Gary Stern to the factory
workers is dedicated to making good pinball machines that are
profitable, fun, and entertaining. The company is small, and it is
hard to hide incompetence. What's left is a hardcore group of industry
professionals with long histories in coin-biz lore and success. I am
proud of WPT. I think you will find that WPT has a nice solid feel
that you might appreciate. I will say no more, because it isn't my
place to tout my design.

I am not posting this to be defensive about our system or WPT. The
product and system speak for themselves.

I am posting this because your grossly unfounded criticism before
seeing, understanding, or hearing the system is unacceptable on an
information level and based on wildly inaccurate data. Should anyone
take your post(s) seriously, I am merely establishing the truth.

I do not speak for Lyman, Keith or any other person here at Stern, but
I am pretty sure they will do nothing more than chuckle when they read
your post. As always, it is hard to take your posts seriously, because
you spew misinformation frequently and infamously. This is a sad state
of affairs, and deserves my rebuttal at least this once. I truly
believe many rgp'ers are rejoicing that I call you on your repeated
spreading of disinformation. This kind of behavior detracts from
pinball, and is especially harmful to people new to the hobby who may
take your data at face value. Is this your intention? I was wondering
if I might ask you to stop posting disinformation. Will you please
stop, Gary?

It's been said before, but this is my version:

Every one of us is entitled to our opinions and the right to post
anything we want, but we all might keep in mind that the internet has
provided each of us with the ability to look like fools as often as we
like, before an audience of millions, for a millenium.

Regards,

Steve Ritchie
Post by g***@yahoo.com
The game should be in stereo
Stern needs the home market
A new system with better audio would make the game that much more
attractive
What is the point of a "new system" if it doesn't do much of anything
better than the "old system" ... We've been hearing about this system
for years and what does it end up doing?
I am really bearish on the future of Stern Pinball
I think the future is going to be a step back into the past with lots
of great parts getting made up by Nappa and others that will allow us
to re-build the classic WMS games
I wouldn't buy another Stern
I used to really enjoy Elvis on location, but in a home environment, it
just feels so clunky
For just a little bit more money, CH can build you a "brand new" WMS
game
Gary.Arizona
pinsane
2006-01-25 21:52:06 UTC
Permalink
This is like one of my favorite scenes in Annie Hall! Woody Allen is
in line for a movie, and is forced to listen to a blowhard wax on
authoritatively about Marshall McLuhan's view of the media, produces
McLuhan who says "I heard what you were saying. You know nothing of