Discussion:
Another Minty Treasure Cove Restoration?
(too old to reply)
Michael DeHooge
2004-04-24 02:00:14 UTC
Permalink
For the most part I have been a lurker in the shadows of this group
for the last 3 years. I have had very few postings except for when I
was looking for a game. However based upon the recent discussions
concerning Treasure Cove I felt that I should post my experience with
them that concluded today. Two weeks ago I emailed TC and asked what
games they had available for sale. Allen emailed back and said to
give him a call. So I called and he mentioned several titles and the
prices they wanted for them. I told him that I was interested in a
couple of titles but would first have to sell off some of my games
before I could make a purchase. He mentioned that maybe we could work
out a trade and wanted to know what I had. I told him that I had a
TAF, CFTBL, and DW. He said that he and Ray would come over and see
them that afternoon. Allen, Ray, and Allen's son arrived and they
inspected the games I had. These games were not collectors quality
but they were average or better. The TAF had some mansion wear and
broken main ramp, the CFTBL's hologram (TC auction just closed today
on it for $347.55) had two spots, and the DW's header was damaged. I
agreed to trade them all three games, a new TAF plastics set (complete
except for a couple of the bugs), New TAF main ramp with decals (I
purchased the TAF parts thru Mazzco from Illinois Pinball 3 years ago
right after IP acquired the Williams inventories), Replacement header
for DW, DW ramps (top and bottom) and complete time expander with
motor, and Alan Meyer repos of CFTBL most commonly broken plastics for
a AFM (They stated that it would go for about $5300 after being
restored). They took the TAF and CFTBL with them and said they would
pickup the DW when the delivered the AFM. I know that Allen and Ray
have had a bad week but take a look the restoration job on this game.

Loading Image...
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I was not expecting a collectors condition game but I was expecting it
to be restored per their website (like rebuilding the flippers). Also
in the future you guys may want to at least tell the buyer about the
playfield wear. Needless to say based upon this restoration job I
won't be buying anything further from them.
Randy P.
2004-04-24 02:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for posting. That is an unfortunate situation, but in fairness you
should also post the following:

* What was your understanding of the condition of the AFM, including the
playfield?
* What kind of shape were the games in that you traded in, as compared to
the condition of the AFM?
* What about the condition of the rest of the AFM -- the cabinet, boards,
translite, etc? Faded, burned, scratched...or pretty fresh?
* Did TC tell you that the restoration would be comparable to other AFMs
that they have restored?
* Did you indicate your dissatisfaction to TC, and give them an opportunity
to set things right with you? That should be your *first* line of recourse,
before posting here -- I hope it was.

It's a good lesson that it's always a good idea to fully understand both
sides of a trade before committing to it. Though I can understand going
along with them if they convinced you that they'd provide a nice example of
that machine that was comparable to others they have restored -- they have
shown that they can do it and have a reputation to protect, and you had
reason to believe their restoration would be up to their usual standards
unless they told you otherwise.

Also bear in mind that a trade with a business is never going to be as even
as a trade with a fellow collector -- if they aren't able to make a few
thousand dollars (or whatever) on a 3-piece trade -- after doing the
restoration work on top of that -- it wouldn't make any sense for them.
Similar to trading in a used car against a new one -- you'll never even get
low bluebook unless they add the profit in somewhere else. That doesn't
make the car dealer a bad guy -- it just makes him a business. So it's
reasonable to assume that it *won't* be a very "even" trade. But it
*should* be a fair trade in the sense that you get what you bargained for.

I hope you guys are able to work something out so you're both happy.

Randy
Post by Michael DeHooge
For the most part I have been a lurker in the shadows of this group
for the last 3 years. I have had very few postings except for when I
was looking for a game. However based upon the recent discussions
concerning Treasure Cove I felt that I should post my experience with
them that concluded today. Two weeks ago I emailed TC and asked what
games they had available for sale. Allen emailed back and said to
give him a call. So I called and he mentioned several titles and the
prices they wanted for them. I told him that I was interested in a
couple of titles but would first have to sell off some of my games
before I could make a purchase. He mentioned that maybe we could work
out a trade and wanted to know what I had. I told him that I had a
TAF, CFTBL, and DW. He said that he and Ray would come over and see
them that afternoon. Allen, Ray, and Allen's son arrived and they
inspected the games I had. These games were not collectors quality
but they were average or better. The TAF had some mansion wear and
broken main ramp, the CFTBL's hologram (TC auction just closed today
on it for $347.55) had two spots, and the DW's header was damaged. I
agreed to trade them all three games, a new TAF plastics set (complete
except for a couple of the bugs), New TAF main ramp with decals (I
purchased the TAF parts thru Mazzco from Illinois Pinball 3 years ago
right after IP acquired the Williams inventories), Replacement header
for DW, DW ramps (top and bottom) and complete time expander with
motor, and Alan Meyer repos of CFTBL most commonly broken plastics for
a AFM (They stated that it would go for about $5300 after being
restored). They took the TAF and CFTBL with them and said they would
pickup the DW when the delivered the AFM. I know that Allen and Ray
have had a bad week but take a look the restoration job on this game.
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/0.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/1.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/2.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/3.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/4.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/5.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/6.jpg
I was not expecting a collectors condition game but I was expecting it
to be restored per their website (like rebuilding the flippers). Also
in the future you guys may want to at least tell the buyer about the
playfield wear. Needless to say based upon this restoration job I
won't be buying anything further from them.
someotherguy
2004-04-24 03:01:03 UTC
Permalink
It will certainly help to know all the details Randy asked about. But I'll have
to say that my first impression is that Michael got the very short end of the
stick; the THREE games he traded for that blown-out AFM would have to have been
real dogs to be anything near a "fair" deal, in my opinion. That AFM is NOWHERE
near ANYBODY'S idea of being worth $5300. For that kind of money the thing
better be certifiable home-use-only and be in perfectly mint condition,
spotlessly clean, etc. etc. to the point that the pickiest person could find not
a single flaw. With the exception of the scoop hole repair they did (which
looks crooked as shit, maybe next time use the protector as a guide for the
shape), that machine looks worse than most AFM's I've seen on location. And I
looked at a bunch, especially when I was shopping Namco locations for an AFM to
buy.

Richard
Post by Randy P.
Thanks for posting. That is an unfortunate situation, but in fairness you
* What was your understanding of the condition of the AFM, including the
playfield?
* What kind of shape were the games in that you traded in, as compared to
the condition of the AFM?
* What about the condition of the rest of the AFM -- the cabinet, boards,
translite, etc? Faded, burned, scratched...or pretty fresh?
* Did TC tell you that the restoration would be comparable to other AFMs
that they have restored?
* Did you indicate your dissatisfaction to TC, and give them an opportunity
to set things right with you? That should be your *first* line of recourse,
before posting here -- I hope it was.
It's a good lesson that it's always a good idea to fully understand both
sides of a trade before committing to it. Though I can understand going
along with them if they convinced you that they'd provide a nice example of
that machine that was comparable to others they have restored -- they have
shown that they can do it and have a reputation to protect, and you had
reason to believe their restoration would be up to their usual standards
unless they told you otherwise.
Also bear in mind that a trade with a business is never going to be as even
as a trade with a fellow collector -- if they aren't able to make a few
thousand dollars (or whatever) on a 3-piece trade -- after doing the
restoration work on top of that -- it wouldn't make any sense for them.
Similar to trading in a used car against a new one -- you'll never even get
low bluebook unless they add the profit in somewhere else. That doesn't
make the car dealer a bad guy -- it just makes him a business. So it's
reasonable to assume that it *won't* be a very "even" trade. But it
*should* be a fair trade in the sense that you get what you bargained for.
I hope you guys are able to work something out so you're both happy.
Randy
Post by Michael DeHooge
For the most part I have been a lurker in the shadows of this group
for the last 3 years. I have had very few postings except for when I
was looking for a game. However based upon the recent discussions
concerning Treasure Cove I felt that I should post my experience with
them that concluded today. Two weeks ago I emailed TC and asked what
games they had available for sale. Allen emailed back and said to
give him a call. So I called and he mentioned several titles and the
prices they wanted for them. I told him that I was interested in a
couple of titles but would first have to sell off some of my games
before I could make a purchase. He mentioned that maybe we could work
out a trade and wanted to know what I had. I told him that I had a
TAF, CFTBL, and DW. He said that he and Ray would come over and see
them that afternoon. Allen, Ray, and Allen's son arrived and they
inspected the games I had. These games were not collectors quality
but they were average or better. The TAF had some mansion wear and
broken main ramp, the CFTBL's hologram (TC auction just closed today
on it for $347.55) had two spots, and the DW's header was damaged. I
agreed to trade them all three games, a new TAF plastics set (complete
except for a couple of the bugs), New TAF main ramp with decals (I
purchased the TAF parts thru Mazzco from Illinois Pinball 3 years ago
right after IP acquired the Williams inventories), Replacement header
for DW, DW ramps (top and bottom) and complete time expander with
motor, and Alan Meyer repos of CFTBL most commonly broken plastics for
a AFM (They stated that it would go for about $5300 after being
restored). They took the TAF and CFTBL with them and said they would
pickup the DW when the delivered the AFM. I know that Allen and Ray
have had a bad week but take a look the restoration job on this game.
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/0.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/1.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/2.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/3.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/4.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/5.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/6.jpg
I was not expecting a collectors condition game but I was expecting it
to be restored per their website (like rebuilding the flippers). Also
in the future you guys may want to at least tell the buyer about the
playfield wear. Needless to say based upon this restoration job I
won't be buying anything further from them.
Pinlicious
2004-04-24 05:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Another Minty Treasure Cove Restoration?
Date: 4/23/04 11:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time
It will certainly help to know all the details Randy asked about. But I'll have
to say that my first impression is that Michael got the very short end of the
stick; the THREE games he traded for that blown-out AFM would have to have been
real dogs to be anything near a "fair" deal, in my opinion. That AFM is NOWHERE
near ANYBODY'S idea of being worth $5300. For that kind of money the thing
better be certifiable home-use-only and be in perfectly mint condition,
spotlessly clean, etc. etc. to the point that the pickiest person could find not
a single flaw. With the exception of the scoop hole repair they did (which
looks crooked as shit, maybe next time use the protector as a guide for the
shape), that machine looks worse than most AFM's I've seen on location. And I
looked at a bunch, especially when I was shopping Namco locations for an AFM to
buy.
Richard
right on richard. even namco didn't have the balls to say thier blown out
machines were worth $5K+. i really feel bad for this guy. he got taken to the
cleaners...

it's all about the dollars... :-(

pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
stevethedomer
2004-04-24 04:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Randy, what would you imply from the statement that the machine he was
receiving would sell for $5300?



On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:31:20 -0700, "Randy P."
Post by Randy P.
Thanks for posting. That is an unfortunate situation, but in fairness you
* What was your understanding of the condition of the AFM, including the
playfield?
* What kind of shape were the games in that you traded in, as compared to
the condition of the AFM?
* What about the condition of the rest of the AFM -- the cabinet, boards,
translite, etc? Faded, burned, scratched...or pretty fresh?
* Did TC tell you that the restoration would be comparable to other AFMs
that they have restored?
* Did you indicate your dissatisfaction to TC, and give them an opportunity
to set things right with you? That should be your *first* line of recourse,
before posting here -- I hope it was.
It's a good lesson that it's always a good idea to fully understand both
sides of a trade before committing to it. Though I can understand going
along with them if they convinced you that they'd provide a nice example of
that machine that was comparable to others they have restored -- they have
shown that they can do it and have a reputation to protect, and you had
reason to believe their restoration would be up to their usual standards
unless they told you otherwise.
Also bear in mind that a trade with a business is never going to be as even
as a trade with a fellow collector -- if they aren't able to make a few
thousand dollars (or whatever) on a 3-piece trade -- after doing the
restoration work on top of that -- it wouldn't make any sense for them.
Similar to trading in a used car against a new one -- you'll never even get
low bluebook unless they add the profit in somewhere else. That doesn't
make the car dealer a bad guy -- it just makes him a business. So it's
reasonable to assume that it *won't* be a very "even" trade. But it
*should* be a fair trade in the sense that you get what you bargained for.
I hope you guys are able to work something out so you're both happy.
Randy
Post by Michael DeHooge
For the most part I have been a lurker in the shadows of this group
for the last 3 years. I have had very few postings except for when I
was looking for a game. However based upon the recent discussions
concerning Treasure Cove I felt that I should post my experience with
them that concluded today. Two weeks ago I emailed TC and asked what
games they had available for sale. Allen emailed back and said to
give him a call. So I called and he mentioned several titles and the
prices they wanted for them. I told him that I was interested in a
couple of titles but would first have to sell off some of my games
before I could make a purchase. He mentioned that maybe we could work
out a trade and wanted to know what I had. I told him that I had a
TAF, CFTBL, and DW. He said that he and Ray would come over and see
them that afternoon. Allen, Ray, and Allen's son arrived and they
inspected the games I had. These games were not collectors quality
but they were average or better. The TAF had some mansion wear and
broken main ramp, the CFTBL's hologram (TC auction just closed today
on it for $347.55) had two spots, and the DW's header was damaged. I
agreed to trade them all three games, a new TAF plastics set (complete
except for a couple of the bugs), New TAF main ramp with decals (I
purchased the TAF parts thru Mazzco from Illinois Pinball 3 years ago
right after IP acquired the Williams inventories), Replacement header
for DW, DW ramps (top and bottom) and complete time expander with
motor, and Alan Meyer repos of CFTBL most commonly broken plastics for
a AFM (They stated that it would go for about $5300 after being
restored). They took the TAF and CFTBL with them and said they would
pickup the DW when the delivered the AFM. I know that Allen and Ray
have had a bad week but take a look the restoration job on this game.
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/0.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/1.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/2.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/3.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/4.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/5.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421492260/6.jpg
I was not expecting a collectors condition game but I was expecting it
to be restored per their website (like rebuilding the flippers). Also
in the future you guys may want to at least tell the buyer about the
playfield wear. Needless to say based upon this restoration job I
won't be buying anything further from them.
stevethedomer (at) hotmail (dot) com
Randy P.
2004-04-24 04:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by stevethedomer
Randy, what would you imply from the statement that the machine he was
receiving would sell for $5300?
Uhhhh...errrrr....ummmm

Point taken ;-)

Randy
Pinlicious
2004-04-24 05:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Another Minty Treasure Cove Restoration?
Date: 4/24/04 12:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Post by stevethedomer
Randy, what would you imply from the statement that the machine he was
receiving would sell for $5300?
Uhhhh...errrrr....ummmm
Point taken ;-)
Randy
no harm, no foul randy :-)

at least they didn't sell you that game...this guy really got taken advantage
of BIG-TIME! :-(

pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
Pinlicious
2004-04-24 05:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Another Minty Treasure Cove Restoration?
Date: 4/24/04 12:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Randy