Tech: Captain Fantastic Game start, EB and OT buzzer

[Skarv]

I have a CF that is giving me some trouble and I wanted to see if anybody could point me in the right direction to get this going again. One issue is a showstopper. The others have just been minor annoyances.

Big issue: Game is not resetting properly. Press the game start button and the score wheels reset properly, but the score motor stops and the ball does not load and the pf and flippers do not become active. Any suggestions on first relay or score motor disc to look at?

Second issue, sometimes (about half the time) the Extra Ball lane remains lit from ball to ball. Sometimes you give the next player an active EB lane. What would you suggest to ensure that this resets properly?

Finally, the over the top buzzer doesn't work. The 100,000 lights work fine, but the buzzer doesn't go off. the Delay light bulb is good, but the relay doesn't seem to energize.

Any help would be apprecieated as I'm in a crunch with work for the foreseeable, and I never get the time I need to debug this. Doesn't help that I'm not that expert on EMs since this one has been so trouble free. TZ has taught me lots about WPC however!

Thanks, and I'll post the results.

[Kerry Imming]

Post by Skarv
I have a CF that is giving me some trouble and I wanted to see if anybody
could point me in the right direction
to get this going again. One issue is a showstopper. The others have just
been minor annoyances.
Big issue: Game is not resetting properly. Press the game start button
and the score wheels reset properly,
but the score motor stops and the ball does not load and the pf and
flippers do not become active. Any suggestions
on first relay or score motor disc to look at?

For a start, check out step 3 in the start-up sequence in the manual on page
3.
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/438/Bally_1976_Capt_Fantastic_FULL_Manual_United_States_Domestic_.pdf

- Kerry

[Skarv]

Post by Skarv
I have a CF that is giving me some trouble and I wanted to see if anybody could point me in the right direction to get this going again. One issue is a showstopper. The others have just been minor annoyances.
Big issue: Game is not resetting properly. Press the game start button and the score wheels reset properly, but the score motor stops and the ball does not load and the pf and flippers do not become active. Any suggestions on first relay or score motor disc to look at?
Second issue, sometimes (about half the time) the Extra Ball lane remains lit from ball to ball. Sometimes you give the next player an active EB lane. What would you suggest to ensure that this resets properly?
Finally, the over the top buzzer doesn't work. The 100,000 lights work fine, but the buzzer doesn't go off. the Delay light bulb is good, but the relay doesn't seem to energize.
Any help would be apprecieated as I'm in a crunch with work for the foreseeable, and I never get the time I need to debug this. Doesn't help that I'm not that expert on EMs since this one has been so trouble free. TZ has taught me lots about WPC however!
Thanks, and I'll post the results.

Thanks Kerry:

I'll give this a try tonight. I assume that the #1 an #8 switch refers to the stack in the score motor? Thanks again and I'll post results.

[Tenn_pin]

CF is a great playing machine. I sold mine and regret it here 4 years later.

Have you cleaned all contacts? My machine would have intermitten problems that always came back to dirty contacts. That usually will clear up all probelms and fix the future ones that are lurking in your cabinet.

Good luck.

[Skarv]

Post by Tenn_pin
CF is a great playing machine. I sold mine and regret it here 4 years later.
Have you cleaned all contacts? My machine would have intermitten problems that always came back to dirty contacts. That usually will clear up all probelms and fix the future ones that are lurking in your cabinet.
Good luck.

Still no joy. I cleaned all the contacts in the score motor, and then did the relays. Behaves the same. Paid special attention to disc one and eight per Kerry's suggestion. Will get back into it this weekend I hope. Additional symptom, the game over light stays on after the score wheels reset. And the PF remains dead.

If I manually push the interlocked relay, all the bells go off and the targets reset??

Any hints?

Thanks all.

[a***@hotmail.com]

The Bonus Unit is not resetting to the zero position.

[GOCATGO]

CF is a great playing machine.  I sold mine and regret it here 4 years later.
Have you cleaned all contacts?  My machine would have intermitten problems that always came back to dirty contacts.  That usually will clear up all probelms and fix the future ones that are lurking in your cabinet.
Good luck.

Still no joy.   I cleaned all the contacts in the score motor, and then did the relays.   Behaves the same.  Paid special attention to disc one and eight per Kerry's suggestion.   Will get back into it this weekend I hope.   Additional symptom, the game over light stays on after the score wheels reset.  And the PF remains dead.
If I manually push the interlocked relay, all the bells go off and the targets reset??
Any hints?
Thanks all.

Check the game over(latch/lock)relay to make sure properly adjusted
and clean. That relay can wreak lots of havoc w/that game. Good
luck.

Russ
www.Team-EM.com

[Skarv]

Hi guys:

Sorry I've been away, but life interfered. I tried the suggestions on this rainy day and turned up some more info, but still no solution.

I cleaned contacts, and checked the functioning of the bonus unit. Seems in order. Did same for credit unit and ball unit.

Checked the game over/latch relay and here things got interesting. If I force this into the playing position, it makes the machine buzz and stick. Both the 100 and the 1000 chimes "lock" in the activated position and buzz. I manually release this so as to not burn things out. I checked all the playfield switches, and they seem to be fine. I can see air between the contacts on all, so there is nothing jammed closed.

Does this suggest any place to look?

Thanks again.

[Kerry Imming]

Post by Skarv
I cleaned contacts, and checked the functioning of the bonus unit. Seems
in order. Did same for credit unit and ball unit.
Checked the game over/latch relay and here things got interesting. If I
force this into the playing position, it makes the
machine buzz and stick. Both the 100 and the 1000 chimes "lock" in the
activated position and buzz. I manually release
this so as to not burn things out. I checked all the playfield switches,
and they seem to be fine. I can see air between
the contacts on all, so there is nothing jammed closed.
Does this suggest any place to look?

If the 100 and 1000 point chimes are stuck on, then the 100 and 1000 point
relays are stuck on. Try leaving the playfield unplugged and see if they
still stick on.

The first problem is still that the reset sequence hasn't completed. You'll
need to work through the sequence in the manual to see what's stopping the
game over relay from latching. Does the COIN UNIT reset? Does the PLAY
METER step up? Those will give you clues as to what's working and not.

- Kerry

[Skarv]

Forgot to mention above... If i activate the game over latch, the lights for the 'Activate A' and 'Activate B' come on as do the bonus scoring rollovers and the bonus scoring lanes for A and B.. as well as the lower pop, and the 1,000 light in the bonus column. A&B do not light in the play field indicating that they have been scored.

[Skarv]

Oh... and after an hour or so of tinkering, there is no smoke!

[Skarv]

Post by Skarv
I have a CF that is giving me some trouble and I wanted to see if anybody could point me in the right direction to get this going again. One issue is a showstopper. The others have just been minor annoyances.
Big issue: Game is not resetting properly. Press the game start button and the score wheels reset properly, but the score motor stops and the ball does not load and the pf and flippers do not become active. Any suggestions on first relay or score motor disc to look at?
Second issue, sometimes (about half the time) the Extra Ball lane remains lit from ball to ball. Sometimes you give the next player an active EB lane. What would you suggest to ensure that this resets properly?
Finally, the over the top buzzer doesn't work. The 100,000 lights work fine, but the buzzer doesn't go off. the Delay light bulb is good, but the relay doesn't seem to energize.
Any help would be apprecieated as I'm in a crunch with work for the foreseeable, and I never get the time I need to debug this. Doesn't help that I'm not that expert on EMs since this one has been so trouble free. TZ has taught me lots about WPC however!
Thanks, and I'll post the results.

Thanks Kerry:

Same basic problem with one improvement. The disk on the bonus unit was loose so once tightened and aligned, only the 100 chime locks on.

The behavior is basically the same with the pf unplugged.

In terms of reset behavior, none of the units are resetting. The coin unit, the player unit or the coin unit. Played name counter does not register.

Do you have a hint as to what sends the reset pulse to all of these units?

Many thanks for your help

[Kerry Imming]

Post by Skarv
Same basic problem with one improvement. The disk on the bonus unit was
loose so once tightened
and aligned, only the 100 chime locks on.
The behavior is basically the same with the pf unplugged.
In terms of reset behavior, none of the units are resetting. The coin
unit, the player unit or the coin unit.
Played name counter does not register.
Do you have a hint as to what sends the reset pulse to all of these units?

Reset sequence step 2C describes this. COIN relay, through the RESET relay,
resets COIN UNIT, BALL COUNT UNIT, and PLAYER UP UNIT.

Check these switches:
1. Make-break switch on RESET relay with brown-yellow, red-black, and
white-brown (center) wires
2. Score motor switch 3C, with orange-black and white-brown wires
3. N.O. switch on COIN relay with red-white and solid yellow wires

The FIRST COIN CHUTE ADJ. plug is also in that circuit, so make sure sure
the pins/connectors on that are clean.

- Kerry

[Skarv]

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by Skarv
Same basic problem with one improvement. The disk on the bonus unit was
loose so once tightened
and aligned, only the 100 chime locks on.
The behavior is basically the same with the pf unplugged.
In terms of reset behavior, none of the units are resetting. The coin
unit, the player unit or the coin unit.
Played name counter does not register.
Do you have a hint as to what sends the reset pulse to all of these units?

Reset sequence step 2C describes this. COIN relay, through the RESET relay,
resets COIN UNIT, BALL COUNT UNIT, and PLAYER UP UNIT.
1. Make-break switch on RESET relay with brown-yellow, red-black, and
white-brown (center) wires
2. Score motor switch 3C, with orange-black and white-brown wires
3. N.O. switch on COIN relay with red-white and solid yellow wires
The FIRST COIN CHUTE ADJ. plug is also in that circuit, so make sure sure
the pins/connectors on that are clean.
- Kerry

Hi Kerry:

You truly are a gentleman to help, and put up with my intermittent timing. Life interrupts my Pinball hobby way too much.

This did it for the core problem. You were spot on. I cleaned all you suggested, but I think the culprits were the adjustment of the leaves on the reset relay. It worked and was clean, but there just wasn't enough pressure to make the switches. Between the cleaning and the adjustment, and the machine plays fine... BUT (dont you hate that but word..)

But I only play for a second so I don't burn a coil. I still have the 100 relay sticking which makes it buzz and makes the 100 chime buzz too. I'm looking over the Alt relay, but any other suggestions welcome.

Also... schematics question. Part of the reason I'm so slow on the schematics is I dont' get the color code. I find the line I'm pretty sure is red/white is labeled "B". what is the code? And many wires are unlabeled but there are little boxes with a pair of numbers separated by a hyphen. What are these?

Thanks again, you are a genius, and a gentleman.

[Skarv]

Post by Skarv

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by Skarv
Same basic problem with one improvement. The disk on the bonus unit was
loose so once tightened
and aligned, only the 100 chime locks on.
The behavior is basically the same with the pf unplugged.
In terms of reset behavior, none of the units are resetting. The coin
unit, the player unit or the coin unit.
Played name counter does not register.
Do you have a hint as to what sends the reset pulse to all of these units?

Reset sequence step 2C describes this. COIN relay, through the RESET relay,
resets COIN UNIT, BALL COUNT UNIT, and PLAYER UP UNIT.
1. Make-break switch on RESET relay with brown-yellow, red-black, and
white-brown (center) wires
2. Score motor switch 3C, with orange-black and white-brown wires
3. N.O. switch on COIN relay with red-white and solid yellow wires
The FIRST COIN CHUTE ADJ. plug is also in that circuit, so make sure sure
the pins/connectors on that are clean.
- Kerry

You truly are a gentleman to help, and put up with my intermittent timing. Life interrupts my Pinball hobby way too much.
This did it for the core problem. You were spot on. I cleaned all you suggested, but I think the culprits were the adjustment of the leaves on the reset relay. It worked and was clean, but there just wasn't enough pressure to make the switches. Between the cleaning and the adjustment, and the machine plays fine... BUT (dont you hate that but word..)
But I only play for a second so I don't burn a coil. I still have the 100 relay sticking which makes it buzz and makes the 100 chime buzz too. I'm looking over the Alt relay, but any other suggestions welcome.
Also... schematics question. Part of the reason I'm so slow on the schematics is I dont' get the color code. I find the line I'm pretty sure is red/white is labeled "B". what is the code? And many wires are unlabeled but there are little boxes with a pair of numbers separated by a hyphen. What are these?
Thanks again, you are a genius, and a gentleman.

Scratch the question on the color code... Just found the box on the schematic explaining the deal. The other part would be appreciated though.

Thanks again.

[Skarv]

Final Answer:

Kerry nailed it on all fronts. The 100 point issue was that I must have bumped the left outlane NO switch and made it AO by accident. Quick adjustment and the captain is fantastic again.


Thanks again to Kerry.

D

Post by Skarv

Post by Skarv

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by Skarv
Same basic problem with one improvement. The disk on the bonus unit was
loose so once tightened
and aligned, only the 100 chime locks on.
The behavior is basically the same with the pf unplugged.
In terms of reset behavior, none of the units are resetting. The coin
unit, the player unit or the coin unit.
Played name counter does not register.
Do you have a hint as to what sends the reset pulse to all of these units?

Reset sequence step 2C describes this. COIN relay, through the RESET relay,
resets COIN UNIT, BALL COUNT UNIT, and PLAYER UP UNIT.
1. Make-break switch on RESET relay with brown-yellow, red-black, and
white-brown (center) wires
2. Score motor switch 3C, with orange-black and white-brown wires
3. N.O. switch on COIN relay with red-white and solid yellow wires
The FIRST COIN CHUTE ADJ. plug is also in that circuit, so make sure sure
the pins/connectors on that are clean.
- Kerry

You truly are a gentleman to help, and put up with my intermittent timing. Life interrupts my Pinball hobby way too much.
This did it for the core problem. You were spot on. I cleaned all you suggested, but I think the culprits were the adjustment of the leaves on the reset relay. It worked and was clean, but there just wasn't enough pressure to make the switches. Between the cleaning and the adjustment, and the machine plays fine... BUT (dont you hate that but word..)
But I only play for a second so I don't burn a coil. I still have the 100 relay sticking which makes it buzz and makes the 100 chime buzz too. I'm looking over the Alt relay, but any other suggestions welcome.
Also... schematics question. Part of the reason I'm so slow on the schematics is I dont' get the color code. I find the line I'm pretty sure is red/white is labeled "B". what is the code? And many wires are unlabeled but there are little boxes with a pair of numbers separated by a hyphen. What are these?
Thanks again, you are a genius, and a gentleman.

Scratch the question on the color code... Just found the box on the schematic explaining the deal. The other part would be appreciated though.
Thanks again.

[Skarv]

Forgot to mention... The bonus unit resets fine. Steps down 5 at a time as is usual.

Post by Skarv
I have a CF that is giving me some trouble and I wanted to see if anybody could point me in the right direction to get this going again. One issue is a showstopper. The others have just been minor annoyances.
Big issue: Game is not resetting properly. Press the game start button and the score wheels reset properly, but the score motor stops and the ball does not load and the pf and flippers do not become active. Any suggestions on first relay or score motor disc to look at?
Second issue, sometimes (about half the time) the Extra Ball lane remains lit from ball to ball. Sometimes you give the next player an active EB lane. What would you suggest to ensure that this resets properly?
Finally, the over the top buzzer doesn't work. The 100,000 lights work fine, but the buzzer doesn't go off. the Delay light bulb is good, but the relay doesn't seem to energize.
Any help would be apprecieated as I'm in a crunch with work for the foreseeable, and I never get the time I need to debug this. Doesn't help that I'm not that expert on EMs since this one has been so trouble free. TZ has taught me lots about WPC however!
Thanks, and I'll post the results.