Pinball machine lights up but won't start.. Help!

[b***@hotmail.com]

I have a Bally Kiss pinball machine that has been working perfectly
for the past few years. Today, after a few games, it made some
chiming noises while it was in attract mode that it doesn't usually
make. When I tried a game, the flippers didn't work. I turned off
the machine and turned it back on. Now, the machine lights up but
doesn't kick over into the start up chimes or attract mode. It just
sits there with the playfield and backglass lights illuminated.

I've checked the LED on the MPU when I power it on and it doesn't
flash, at all. Does this mean my MPU needs to be repaired? ...or
could it possible be something else.

Also, if I need to have the MPU repaired, I could REALLY use some
advice on who a reputable repair person might be to send it to.

At any rate, ANY help or advice would be much, much appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian

[gangstarr]

first, check all fuses with a meter.
next,

we have to make sure all connectors everywhere (esp power supply) are
not burned.
we also need to make sure the power supply has had all pins reflowed.

make sure mpu has no battery acid damage. if its been sitting and it
has the stock battery, chances are it exploded.

after teh aboves issues are confirmed and or corected, then we can
move on.
its quite the journey wil old pins.

connectors and power supplies are the root thow and need be rebuilt
first before you proceed.

[Sean Casey]

My guess is that it is probably a header that has a broken solder joint.
I believe the connector is in the top left corner of the mpu that has
all of the voltages in. Go through and check the voltages on the test
points to see.

Sean

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I have a Bally Kiss pinball machine that has been working perfectly
for the past few years. Today, after a few games, it made some
chiming noises while it was in attract mode that it doesn't usually
make. When I tried a game, the flippers didn't work. I turned off
the machine and turned it back on. Now, the machine lights up but
doesn't kick over into the start up chimes or attract mode. It just
sits there with the playfield and backglass lights illuminated.
I've checked the LED on the MPU when I power it on and it doesn't
flash, at all. Does this mean my MPU needs to be repaired? ...or
could it possible be something else.
Also, if I need to have the MPU repaired, I could REALLY use some
advice on who a reputable repair person might be to send it to.
At any rate, ANY help or advice would be much, much appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian

[kbliznick]

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've checked the LED on the MPU when I power it on and it doesn't
flash, at all.  Does this mean my MPU needs to be repaired? ...or
could it possible be something else.
Also, if I need to have the MPU repaired, I could REALLY use some
advice on who a reputable repair person might be to send it to.

I would put my money on there being battery corrosion on the bottom of
the MPU board from an old rechargable battery. This destroys the
reset section on the board and the main system of that is a board that
will not flash at all.

There are numerous reputable board repair places

Clive at coin-op cauldron
Boryguard
Steve Kulpa
Chris Hibler
and sorry to anyone that I have left off

But for Bally MPU's the best bang for the buck is an Alltek Ultimate
MPU for $200, doesn't need a battery or eproms and can be transferred
to different games and carries a lifetime warranty.
http://www.allteksystems.com/products-mpu-replacements.html#mpu

But before you get to that you should (as described earlier) check the
fuses on the rectifier board on the lower right side in the head.
Fuse 3 is the one that will keep the MPU from having any flashes

After that you can check for some voltages right on the MPU.

Test point 4 is ground and is at the upper right corner
Test Point 5 is 5Volts and is near the bottom right corner
Test point 2 is 12V and is on the left side about 1/3 of the way up
from the bottom

The voltages enter the MPU board on the connector on the lower left on
the MPU, but you don't want to mess around there as the 43V pin is
next to the 5V pin and one slip up there and you can blow up most of
the chips on the board.

The MPU needs both 12V and 5V before it will get the first flash. 43
volts is unimportant at this point as you won't need it until the 7th
flash.

Once you determine if you have the 12V and 5V on the MPU we can move
to the next step.

[super8man]

Post by kbliznick

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've checked the LED on the MPU when I power it on and it doesn't
flash, at all.  Does this mean my MPU needs to be repaired? ...or
could it possible be something else.
Also, if I need to have the MPU repaired, I could REALLY use some
advice on who a reputable repair person might be to send it to.

I would put my money on there being battery corrosion on the bottom of
the MPU board from an old rechargable battery.  This destroys the
reset section on the board and the main system of that is a board that
will not flash at all.
There are numerous reputable board repair places
Clive at coin-op cauldron
Boryguard
Steve Kulpa
Chris Hibler
and sorry to anyone that I have left off
But for Bally MPU's the best bang for the buck is an Alltek Ultimate
MPU for $200, doesn't need a battery or eproms and can be transferred
to different games and carries a lifetime warranty.http://www.allteksystems.com/products-mpu-replacements.html#mpu
But before you get to that you should (as described earlier) check the
fuses on the rectifier board on the lower right side in the head.
Fuse 3 is the one that will keep the MPU from having any flashes
After that you can check for some voltages right on the MPU.
Test point 4 is ground and is at the upper right corner
Test Point 5 is 5Volts and is near the bottom right corner
Test point 2 is 12V and is on the left side about 1/3 of the way up
from the bottom
The voltages enter the MPU board on the connector on the lower left on
the MPU, but you don't want to mess around there as the 43V pin is
next to the 5V pin and one slip up there and you can blow up most of
the chips on the board.
The MPU needs both 12V and 5V before it will get the first flash.  43
volts is unimportant at this point as you won't need it until the 7th
flash.
Once you determine if you have the 12V and 5V on the MPU we can move
to the next step.

Based on the wording of his post I think all the above advice is too
detailed.

What he most likely needs is an online resource to walk him through
some of the basics like checking for blown fuses, backup battery
swaps, and isolation of the problem.

Is there an online resource available out there? The old pinrepair
website is now gone....

[kbliznick]

Post by super8man
Based on the wording of his post I think all the above advice is too
detailed.

too detailed? online resource? I don't know where you read RGP but I
read it online :) Op should chime in here. Do you have and know how
to use a multi-meter? If not then the first step is to go out and buy
one.

Fuse #3 is a longshot, but checking the 2 voltages at the MPU is
definitely the first step in any of the guides,especially if there is
no battery corrosion present.

Also I have seen games where there where the owner had removed an old
corroded battery and put in a remote holder but did not clean up the
existing battery corrosion and that corrosion still eventually killed
the board.

[b***@hotmail.com]

Post by kbliznick

Post by super8man
Based on the wording of his post I think all the above advice is too
detailed.

too detailed? online resource? I don't know where you read RGP but I
read it online :)  Op should chime in here.  Do you have and know how
to use a multi-meter?  If not then the first step is to go out and buy
one.
Fuse #3 is a longshot, but checking the 2 voltages at the MPU is
definitely the first step in any of the guides,especially if there is
no battery corrosion present.
Also I have seen games where there where the owner had removed an old
corroded battery and put in a remote holder but did not clean up the
existing battery corrosion and that corrosion still eventually killed
the board.

Thanks kbliznick, I don't own and don't have any experience with a
multi-meter. So, I may have to pick one up.

Checking the voltages at the MPU is basically to affirm that power is
getting to the MPU, right? If the MPU is getting power and still not
working, then I can assume my MPU is faulty?

[kbliznick]

Post by b***@hotmail.com
Checking the voltages at the MPU is basically to affirm that power is
getting to the MPU, right?  If the MPU is getting power and still not
working, then I can assume my MPU is faulty?- Hide quoted text -

Yes, If you are getting both 12V and 5V at the MPU and the MPU is
still not flashing at least once then the MPU has a problem.

[super8man]

Post by kbliznick

Post by super8man
Based on the wording of his post I think all the above advice is too
detailed.

too detailed? online resource? I don't know where you read RGP but I
read it online :)  Op should chime in here.  Do you have and know how
to use a multi-meter?  If not then the first step is to go out and buy
one.
Fuse #3 is a longshot, but checking the 2 voltages at the MPU is
definitely the first step in any of the guides,especially if there is
no battery corrosion present.
Also I have seen games where there where the owner had removed an old
corroded battery and put in a remote holder but did not clean up the
existing battery corrosion and that corrosion still eventually killed
the board.

Sounds like the OP is quite handy so the advice is well heeded - my
bad. I've just seen other times when folks come on here and ask for
advice, they get good advice but it ends up being over their head.
Hence my pointing to some type of Clay-like friendly speaking online
guide that is now gone...

Cheers

[Zton]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[b***@hotmail.com]

Thanks, Everyone, for the advice!

The battery was replaced with a battery chamber off of the MPU before
I got the machine. So, that shouldn't be the problem.

Since the machine was working great for years and, basically, stopped
working without being stressed from a move, etc., I'm mostly trying to
figure out what things I need to check to make sure its the MPU and
not something else.

Could a blown fuse keep the MPU from working? I'm not knowledgeable
at all regarding the circuit boards and what-not in the machine. I
can do flipper repairs and things of that nature but am completely
clueless when it comes to the "brains."

I guess I need to figure out if it is the MPU so I can buy a
replacement or send mine out for repair. I'm trying to avoid sending
the board out and then finding out that it was an issue with something
other than the MPU.

I'll check fuse #3 and see if that might be the problem.

Thanks.

[b***@hotmail.com]

I've replaced fuse #3 with a new fuse and the machine is still not
working. When I turn the machine on, illumination is present but it
doesn't go any further.

If the fuse is okay and the MPU board still does not flash at all when
powered on, can I assume it's the MPU that's the problem?

(this may be a double question as it didn't seem to post the first
time)

[b***@hotmail.com]

I've replaced Fuse #3 on the rectifier board with a new fuse. The
machine still won't function.

If I've replaced the fuse and the LED still does not flash when I
switch on the machine, can I be pretty sure it's something wrong with
the MPU?

[Kerry Imming]

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've replaced fuse #3 with a new fuse and the machine is still not
working. When I turn the machine on, illumination is present but it
doesn't go any further.
If the fuse is okay and the MPU board still does not flash at all when
powered on, can I assume it's the MPU that's the problem?
(this may be a double question as it didn't seem to post the first
time)

Hi Brian, welcome to rec.games.pinball!

There's quite a bit of information on the new pinball repair site here:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

If you go to the PinWiki main page there's a page for repair services, any of those could help you.

For future posts, you'll get the right people looking at your post if you start with TECH and a few more details, e.g.
"TECH: Bally Kiss MPU LED does not flash at power on"

- Kerry

[b***@hotmail.com]

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've replaced fuse #3 with a new fuse and the machine is still not
working.  When I turn the machine on, illumination is present but it
doesn't go any further.
If the fuse is okay and the MPU board still does not flash at all when
powered on, can I assume it's the MPU that's the problem?
(this may be a double question as it didn't seem to post the first
time)

Hi Brian, welcome to rec.games.pinball!
There's quite a bit of information on the new pinball repair site here:http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern
If you go to the PinWiki main page there's a page for repair services, any of those could help you.
For future posts, you'll get the right people looking at your post if you start with TECH and a few more details, e.g.
"TECH: Bally Kiss MPU LED does not flash at power on"
- Kerry

Thanks, Kerry. I'll be sure to label my post that way next time.
Thanks much for the link, too!

[Kerry Imming]

Post by b***@hotmail.com
Thanks, Kerry. I'll be sure to label my post that way next time.
Thanks much for the link, too!

Chris Hibler works on Bally Boards. He's one of the contacts listed in the PinWiki board repair section:

http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/RepairService.htm

His contact information is on the page. You should send the MPU, regulator/driver, and lamp boards to make sure everything works correctly after repair.

Short of reseating the connectors you really need the right equipment to dig in when the board doesn't even boot far enough for it's own diagnostics to work.

- Kerry

[b***@hotmail.com]

I've tested the MPU test points with a multimeter and am embarrassed
to report that I don't know what the readings mean. I'm not sure if
the MPU is getting power or not. Here's what the multimeter says (set
for DC):

Test point 5 reads at around 170

Test point 2 reads at around .946

Does this mean my CPU is getting power? Any help would be
appreciated.

[Kerry Imming]

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've tested the MPU test points with a multimeter and am embarrassed
to report that I don't know what the readings mean. I'm not sure if
the MPU is getting power or not. Here's what the multimeter says (set
Test point 5 reads at around 170
Test point 2 reads at around .946
Does this mean my CPU is getting power? Any help would be
appreciated.

Well... it likely means you need some help using your new meter :-)

Black lead should be on a ground, which is Test Point 4 according to the PinWiki write-up. Red lead on the test point to be measured. If the meter has a RANGE setting it should be on 20V.

As a test, grab a flashlight battery (D, C, or AA). Black to the (-) end, Red to the (+). Meter should read about 1.5V.

- Kerry

[b***@hotmail.com]

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've tested the MPU test points with a multimeter and am embarrassed
to report that I don't know what the readings mean.  I'm not sure if
the MPU is getting power or not.  Here's what the multimeter says (set
Test point 5 reads at around 170
Test point 2 reads at around .946
Does this mean my CPU is getting power?  Any help would be
appreciated.

Well... it likely means you need some help using your new meter :-)
Black lead should be on a ground, which is Test Point 4 according to the PinWiki write-up.  Red lead on the test point to be measured.  If the meter has a RANGE setting it should be on 20V.
As a test, grab a flashlight battery (D, C, or AA).  Black to the (-) end, Red to the (+).  Meter should read about 1.5V.
- Kerry

Thanks, Kerry. Yeah, I do need help. :)

I tried the multimeter on a AA battery and did get about 1.5V. I'm
pretty sure I'm testing the MPU points correctly... black on TP 4 and
the red on the test point being measured. The multimeter is an
autoranging one so I don't need to set it to 20V.

I tried again and still get the same readings for test points 5 and
2. I've tried it several times and always get the same results.

[Alan]

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've tested the MPU test points with a multimeter and am embarrassed
to report that I don't know what the readings mean.  I'm not sure if
the MPU is getting power or not.  Here's what the multimeter says (set
Test point 5 reads at around 170
Test point 2 reads at around .946
Does this mean my CPU is getting power?  Any help would be
appreciated.

Well... it likely means you need some help using your new meter :-)
Black lead should be on a ground, which is Test Point 4 according to the PinWiki write-up.  Red lead on the test point to be measured.  If the meter has a RANGE setting it should be on 20V.
As a test, grab a flashlight battery (D, C, or AA).  Black to the (-) end, Red to the (+).  Meter should read about 1.5V.
- Kerry

Thanks, Kerry.  Yeah, I do need help.  :)
I tried the multimeter on a AA battery and did get about 1.5V.  I'm
pretty sure I'm testing the MPU points correctly... black on TP 4 and
the red on the test point being measured.  The multimeter is an
autoranging one so I don't need to set it to 20V.
I tried again and still get the same readings for test points 5 and
2.  I've tried it several times and always get the same results.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Where do you live? Perhaps there is an RGPer who lives nearby who
might be able to stop over had help you along.

[KenH]

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've tested the MPU test points with a multimeter and am embarrassed
to report that I don't know what the readings mean.  I'm not sure if
the MPU is getting power or not.  Here's what the multimeter says (set
Test point 5 reads at around 170
Test point 2 reads at around .946
Does this mean my CPU is getting power?  Any help would be
appreciated.

Well... it likely means you need some help using your new meter :-)
Black lead should be on a ground, which is Test Point 4 according to the PinWiki write-up.  Red lead on the test point to be measured.  If the meter has a RANGE setting it should be on 20V.
As a test, grab a flashlight battery (D, C, or AA).  Black to the (-) end, Red to the (+).  Meter should read about 1.5V.
- Kerry

Thanks, Kerry.  Yeah, I do need help.  :)
I tried the multimeter on a AA battery and did get about 1.5V.  I'm
pretty sure I'm testing the MPU points correctly... black on TP 4 and
the red on the test point being measured.  The multimeter is an
autoranging one so I don't need to set it to 20V.
I tried again and still get the same readings for test points 5 and
2.  I've tried it several times and always get the same results.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

There should not be 170V anywhere on the MPU. Did you disconnect then
reconnect any connectors on the Solenoid Driver Board? If so, you may
have got them back on incorrectly.

[Kerry Imming]

Post by KenH
There should not be 170V anywhere on the MPU. Did you disconnect then
reconnect any connectors on the Solenoid Driver Board? If so, you may
have got them back on incorrectly.

Since Google Groups is down I've been exchanging emails with the OP.
The 170 is really 170 mV. We've tracked it back to the 11.9V supply
reading 10.45V on the transformer board, but only showing up as 0.17V
on the Solenoid Driver board. The only thing between the two test points
is a connector/wire. I'm not familiar with Bally SS machines.... what type
of connectors/pins are these?

- Kerry

[KenH]

The two sizes used in the game are .156" and .100" molex.

I believe the .156" size is at the rectifier board. I think the 12
line hits J3 pin 12 on the SDB, which is a .100" connector.

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Category-70.asp

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Category-37.as

--
Ken
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.co

[dothedoo]

Not trying to be insulting here, but are you measuring voltage on the
MPU board or the power supply rectifier board? Or even the solenoid
driver board for that matter? There are no voltages higher that
+43VDC on the MPU and the readings you describe seem consistent with
measuring across these test points on the rectifier board or maybe
even the SDB.

Bill Stahly

[dothedoo]

Not trying to be insulting, but are you testing voltages on the MPU
board or the power supply rectifier board or solenoid driver board?
There are no voltages above +43VDC on the MPU board, but the
measurements you are reporting seem consistent with testing across
those points on the rectifier or possibly even the SDB.

Bill Stahly

[b***@hotmail.com]

Post by Kerry Imming

Post by b***@hotmail.com
I've tested the MPU test points with a multimeter and am embarrassed
to report that I don't know what the readings mean.  I'm not sure if
the MPU is getting power or not.  Here's what the multimeter says (set
Test point 5 reads at around 170
Test point 2 reads at around .946
Does this mean my CPU is getting power?  Any help would be
appreciated.

Well... it likely means you need some help using your new meter :-)
Black lead should be on a ground, which is Test Point 4 according to the PinWiki write-up.  Red lead on the test point to be measured.  If the meter has a RANGE setting it should be on 20V.
As a test, grab a flashlight battery (D, C, or AA).  Black to the (-) end, Red to the (+).  Meter should read about 1.5V.
- Kerry

I do need help using the meter. :) I tested a battery and it read at
about 1.5V like it should. I'm pretty certain that I'm using the
meter correctly on the board test points (black on ground 4 and red on
the other test point). I've tried it several times and keep getting
pretty much the same readings...

About 170 at point 5... and about .95 for point 2. I know it sounds
crazy but that's what keeps coming up.

[barakandl]

Okay to use your meter put it in the 20vdc range. Place the black lead on TP4 (ground). Put the red lead on TP2 and TP5. TP5 should be around 5v. TP2 should be around 12v.

If the voltages are correct but the LED is staying locked on there is a board problem.

Take a picture of the board and send it to me. As long as it does not look battery corroded or hacked up i will fix it for $25 plus shipping.

[s***@gmail.com]

Hi
My kiss machine is doing the same thing
It turns on but doesnt start an the green li GB https is flashing. So what should I check next please help

[steve morris]

Try re-seating the five pin connectors to the MPU (J1-J5).

[steve morris]

Post by s***@gmail.com
Hi
My kiss machine is doing the same thing
It turns on but doesnt start an the green li GB https is flashing. So what should I check next please help

Try reseating the five pin connectors (J1-J5).