EM TECH Gottlieb Jungle Princess match issue.

[ThePinballSpot]

Hey Guys I have a strange one here. Ok, so it is a Jungle Princess that does not award a credit for matching in the first player, but does award a credit when matching in the second player. I do have the schematics and see there is a blue-white wire that sends the signal from player one tens unit reel's C rivet to score motor 4B. So I buzzed for continuity to those two ends of the blue-white wire and it buzzed, so the wire is connecting fine. I then cleaned and adjusted 4B and tested that switch for continuity and all is fine. Of course I took apart the tens reel and cleaned the circuit board and checked that the metal connector's three contacts were making snug contact and the single contact leg's end was between 4 and 5. Heck I even swapped the metal finger thing with the known working player two with no change. I am out of idea's now. I know, I know, it is only a match feature that doesn't affect game play, so, yes I can live with this issue but I would like to learn what I have missed checking here.
Thanks,
Todd

[Mark]

Can you get a low resistance path from the BL+WH wire to any of the
other 10 wires connected to the circuit board on the score reel? For
example when the score reel shows 9 there should be almost no resistance
between BL+WH and GR-WH wires.

/Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hey Guys I have a strange one here. Ok, so it is a Jungle Princess that does not award a credit for matching in the first player, but does award a credit when matching in the second player. I do have the schematics and see there is a blue-white wire that sends the signal from player one tens unit reel's C rivet to score motor 4B. So I buzzed for continuity to those two ends of the blue-white wire and it buzzed, so the wire is connecting fine. I then cleaned and adjusted 4B and tested that switch for continuity and all is fine. Of course I took apart the tens reel and cleaned the circuit board and checked that the metal connector's three contacts were making snug contact and the single contact leg's end was between 4 and 5. Heck I even swapped the metal finger thing with the known working player two with no change. I am out of idea's now. I know, I know, it is only a match feature that doesn't affect game play, so, yes I can live with this issue but I would like to learn what I have missed checking here.
Thanks,
Todd

[ThePinballSpot]

Post by Mark
Can you get a low resistance path from the BL+WH wire to any of the
other 10 wires connected to the circuit board on the score reel? For
example when the score reel shows 9 there should be almost no resistance
between BL+WH and GR-WH wires.
/Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hey Guys I have a strange one here. Ok, so it is a Jungle Princess that does not award a credit for matching in the first player, but does award a credit when matching in the second player. I do have the schematics and see there is a blue-white wire that sends the signal from player one tens unit reel's C rivet to score motor 4B. So I buzzed for continuity to those two ends of the blue-white wire and it buzzed, so the wire is connecting fine. I then cleaned and adjusted 4B and tested that switch for continuity and all is fine. Of course I took apart the tens reel and cleaned the circuit board and checked that the metal connector's three contacts were making snug contact and the single contact leg's end was between 4 and 5. Heck I even swapped the metal finger thing with the known working player two with no change. I am out of idea's now. I know, I know, it is only a match feature that doesn't affect game play, so, yes I can live with this issue but I would like to learn what I have missed checking here.
Thanks,
Todd

Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

[Mark]

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.

Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

[ThePinballSpot]

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.
Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

I did try all the different number connections and got nothing. I figured out it must be the common wire at the C contact as it looked like it had been worked on. So I unsoldered the wire and noticed it had strands sticking out not connected and looked burnt. So I cut it back and resoldered it back to the C connection and it now works but gives me 5 credits when it matches. When I test for resistance number 4 always gives me a reading along with the number I am testing. I tested for continuity between 4 and all the other numbers but do not get any beeps. I see on the circuit board there seems to be two connections together for C. So perhaps I soldered the wire in a position to make connections to both contacts?

[Mark]

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.
Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

I did try all the different number connections and got nothing. I figured out it must be the common wire at the C contact as it looked like it had been worked on. So I unsoldered the wire and noticed it had strands sticking out not connected and looked burnt. So I cut it back and resoldered it back to the C connection and it now works but gives me 5 credits when it matches. When I test for resistance number 4 always gives me a reading along with the number I am testing. I tested for continuity between 4 and all the other numbers but do not get any beeps. I see on the circuit board there seems to be two connections together for C. So perhaps I soldered the wire in a position to make connections to both contacts?

The Motor 4B switch connected to the player 1 10s score reel (blue+white
to brown+white wires) should close briefly to allow only the third of
five pulses generated by a Motor 1A switch to get through the player 1
match circuit. Is it stuck closed or shorted? Player 2 has its own
switch on Motor 2C to accomplish the same thing.

[ThePinballSpot]

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.
Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

I did try all the different number connections and got nothing. I figured out it must be the common wire at the C contact as it looked like it had been worked on. So I unsoldered the wire and noticed it had strands sticking out not connected and looked burnt. So I cut it back and resoldered it back to the C connection and it now works but gives me 5 credits when it matches. When I test for resistance number 4 always gives me a reading along with the number I am testing. I tested for continuity between 4 and all the other numbers but do not get any beeps. I see on the circuit board there seems to be two connections together for C. So perhaps I soldered the wire in a position to make connections to both contacts?

The Motor 4B switch connected to the player 1 10s score reel (blue+white
to brown+white wires) should close briefly to allow only the third of
five pulses generated by a Motor 1A switch to get through the player 1
match circuit. Is it stuck closed or shorted? Player 2 has its own
switch on Motor 2C to accomplish the same thing.

Thanks Mark it was 4B gapped too tightly which was done by me when I thought that may be the problem earlier. After I fixed this issue by widening the gap on 4B the game would not go to game over. The score motor just kept spinning. So I knew it had to be something I just worked on. So sure enough I found the switch on 4C that actuated the game over relay and there is a small jumper that goes to a switch on 4B and when I removed the 4C switch stack I had to twist it up to get at 4B. So I guess I twisted too much and severed the jumper. Now I gotta get back in there and solder a tiny jumper wire. This is going to be lots of fun. I will probably have to separate switch blades from the stack to get in to that tight area. Boy I hate working on Gottlieb score motors for this reason. I find working on Williams and Bally score motors a breeze compared to Gottlieb.

[Mark]

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.
Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

I did try all the different number connections and got nothing. I figured out it must be the common wire at the C contact as it looked like it had been worked on. So I unsoldered the wire and noticed it had strands sticking out not connected and looked burnt. So I cut it back and resoldered it back to the C connection and it now works but gives me 5 credits when it matches. When I test for resistance number 4 always gives me a reading along with the number I am testing. I tested for continuity between 4 and all the other numbers but do not get any beeps. I see on the circuit board there seems to be two connections together for C. So perhaps I soldered the wire in a position to make connections to both contacts?

The Motor 4B switch connected to the player 1 10s score reel (blue+white
to brown+white wires) should close briefly to allow only the third of
five pulses generated by a Motor 1A switch to get through the player 1
match circuit. Is it stuck closed or shorted? Player 2 has its own
switch on Motor 2C to accomplish the same thing.

Thanks Mark it was 4B gapped too tightly which was done by me when I thought that may be the problem earlier. After I fixed this issue by widening the gap on 4B the game would not go to game over. The score motor just kept spinning. So I knew it had to be something I just worked on. So sure enough I found the switch on 4C that actuated the game over relay and there is a small jumper that goes to a switch on 4B and when I removed the 4C switch stack I had to twist it up to get at 4B. So I guess I twisted too much and severed the jumper. Now I gotta get back in there and solder a tiny jumper wire. This is going to be lots of fun. I will probably have to separate switch blades from the stack to get in to that tight area. Boy I hate working on Gottlieb score motors for this reason. I find working on Williams and Bally score motors a breeze compared to Gottlieb.

Many Gottlieb motors are hinged and can be tiled up for better access if
you remove the R pin holding it in place.

[ThePinballSpot]

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.
Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

I did try all the different number connections and got nothing. I figured out it must be the common wire at the C contact as it looked like it had been worked on. So I unsoldered the wire and noticed it had strands sticking out not connected and looked burnt. So I cut it back and resoldered it back to the C connection and it now works but gives me 5 credits when it matches. When I test for resistance number 4 always gives me a reading along with the number I am testing. I tested for continuity between 4 and all the other numbers but do not get any beeps. I see on the circuit board there seems to be two connections together for C. So perhaps I soldered the wire in a position to make connections to both contacts?

The Motor 4B switch connected to the player 1 10s score reel (blue+white
to brown+white wires) should close briefly to allow only the third of
five pulses generated by a Motor 1A switch to get through the player 1
match circuit. Is it stuck closed or shorted? Player 2 has its own
switch on Motor 2C to accomplish the same thing.

Thanks Mark it was 4B gapped too tightly which was done by me when I thought that may be the problem earlier. After I fixed this issue by widening the gap on 4B the game would not go to game over. The score motor just kept spinning. So I knew it had to be something I just worked on. So sure enough I found the switch on 4C that actuated the game over relay and there is a small jumper that goes to a switch on 4B and when I removed the 4C switch stack I had to twist it up to get at 4B. So I guess I twisted too much and severed the jumper. Now I gotta get back in there and solder a tiny jumper wire. This is going to be lots of fun. I will probably have to separate switch blades from the stack to get in to that tight area. Boy I hate working on Gottlieb score motors for this reason. I find working on Williams and Bally score motors a breeze compared to Gottlieb.

Many Gottlieb motors are hinged and can be tiled up for better access if
you remove the R pin holding it in place.

Yes I tried tilting it up and it was even harder to get at as that put the number 4 set of switches down rather than up where it would have been easier.

[ThePinballSpot]

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.
Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

I did try all the different number connections and got nothing. I figured out it must be the common wire at the C contact as it looked like it had been worked on. So I unsoldered the wire and noticed it had strands sticking out not connected and looked burnt. So I cut it back and resoldered it back to the C connection and it now works but gives me 5 credits when it matches. When I test for resistance number 4 always gives me a reading along with the number I am testing. I tested for continuity between 4 and all the other numbers but do not get any beeps. I see on the circuit board there seems to be two connections together for C. So perhaps I soldered the wire in a position to make connections to both contacts?

The Motor 4B switch connected to the player 1 10s score reel (blue+white
to brown+white wires) should close briefly to allow only the third of
five pulses generated by a Motor 1A switch to get through the player 1
match circuit. Is it stuck closed or shorted? Player 2 has its own
switch on Motor 2C to accomplish the same thing.

Thanks Mark it was 4B gapped too tightly which was done by me when I thought that may be the problem earlier. After I fixed this issue by widening the gap on 4B the game would not go to game over. The score motor just kept spinning. So I knew it had to be something I just worked on. So sure enough I found the switch on 4C that actuated the game over relay and there is a small jumper that goes to a switch on 4B and when I removed the 4C switch stack I had to twist it up to get at 4B. So I guess I twisted too much and severed the jumper. Now I gotta get back in there and solder a tiny jumper wire. This is going to be lots of fun. I will probably have to separate switch blades from the stack to get in to that tight area. Boy I hate working on Gottlieb score motors for this reason. I find working on Williams and Bally score motors a breeze compared to Gottlieb.

Many Gottlieb motors are hinged and can be tiled up for better access if
you remove the R pin holding it in place.

Yes I tried tilting it up and it was even harder to get at as that put the number 4 set of switches down rather than up where it would have been easier.

But tilting it up may help with attaching the jumper. I will give it a try. It certainly wasn't helpful when trying to adjust the 4b switch.

[ThePinballSpot]

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot

Post by Mark

Post by ThePinballSpot
Hi Mark. I understand the test you asked me to run and no I did not get anything from the first player 10's reel. I tried the same test with the second player 10's reel and did get movement with the meter with the corresponding wire and reel number. Does this point to the circuit board being the problem?
Thanks. Todd

The test only tells you that there is an issue between the two meter
probes. Depending on where you clipped the probes it could be in the
wires, the solder joints, the copper traces, the moving wiper, etc.
Did you try the test on multiple numbers or just one? If you can't
establish a connection for any of the 10 numbers the problem is more
likely to be with the wiper or the common wire path.

I did try all the different number connections and got nothing. I figured out it must be the common wire at the C contact as it looked like it had been worked on. So I unsoldered the wire and noticed it had strands sticking out not connected and looked burnt. So I cut it back and resoldered it back to the C connection and it now works but gives me 5 credits when it matches. When I test for resistance number 4 always gives me a reading along with the number I am testing. I tested for continuity between 4 and all the other numbers but do not get any beeps. I see on the circuit board there seems to be two connections together for C. So perhaps I soldered the wire in a position to make connections to both contacts?

The Motor 4B switch connected to the player 1 10s score reel (blue+white
to brown+white wires) should close briefly to allow only the third of
five pulses generated by a Motor 1A switch to get through the player 1
match circuit. Is it stuck closed or shorted? Player 2 has its own
switch on Motor 2C to accomplish the same thing.

Thanks Mark it was 4B gapped too tightly which was done by me when I thought that may be the problem earlier. After I fixed this issue by widening the gap on 4B the game would not go to game over. The score motor just kept spinning. So I knew it had to be something I just worked on. So sure enough I found the switch on 4C that actuated the game over relay and there is a small jumper that goes to a switch on 4B and when I removed the 4C switch stack I had to twist it up to get at 4B. So I guess I twisted too much and severed the jumper. Now I gotta get back in there and solder a tiny jumper wire. This is going to be lots of fun. I will probably have to separate switch blades from the stack to get in to that tight area. Boy I hate working on Gottlieb score motors for this reason. I find working on Williams and Bally score motors a breeze compared to Gottlieb.

Many Gottlieb motors are hinged and can be tiled up for better access if
you remove the R pin holding it in place.

Yes I tried tilting it up and it was even harder to get at as that put the number 4 set of switches down rather than up where it would have been easier.

But tilting it up may help with attaching the jumper. I will give it a try. It certainly wasn't helpful when trying to adjust the 4b switch.

Whew! I got myself out of that jam. I had to remove switch stack 4C and then separate the switches and spacers to the right of the switch I had to solder the jumper on so I could get into the tight space. It was so tight that I didn't need to add any wire to the jumper. I just added solder to both connections and pushed them tight together and the existing frayed wire helped to seal a connection. So this JP is now fully operational and ready to go in my arcade. Thanks for your great directions Mark!