Crazy flipper problems on an Addams Family

[Ron Lyons]

I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!

Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.

So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?

Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.

Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.

Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.

Any ideas of where to look next?

Thanks,

Ron

[Lloyd Olson]

Instead of going back and forth all night, one bad thing destroys other parts,
replace them and them blow up more, I'd stick in a new flipper coil, new
diodes, new hold and power transistors. Otherwise you'll be going back and
forth all night and not get it working. LTG :)

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[pinbob]

be sure and replace the diodes on all flipper coils. I've seen a broken
lower flipper coi diode destroy an upper flipper circuit.
when i see fried flipper circuit i replace all the diodes....10 for a
dollar.

Post by Lloyd Olson
Instead of going back and forth all night, one bad thing destroys other parts,
replace them and them blow up more, I'd stick in a new flipper coil, new
diodes, new hold and power transistors. Otherwise you'll be going back and
forth all night and not get it working. LTG :)

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[Ron Lyons]

So it could be a diode on another coil, then?

Ron

Post by pinbob
be sure and replace the diodes on all flipper coils. I've seen a broken
lower flipper coi diode destroy an upper flipper circuit.
when i see fried flipper circuit i replace all the diodes....10 for a
dollar.

Post by Lloyd Olson
Instead of going back and forth all night, one bad thing destroys other

parts,

Post by Lloyd Olson
replace them and them blow up more, I'd stick in a new flipper coil, new
diodes, new hold and power transistors. Otherwise you'll be going back and
forth all night and not get it working. LTG :)

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball,

and

Post by pinbob
any

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought

I

Post by pinbob
had

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game

on,

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it

blows

Post by pinbob
the

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough,

it

Post by pinbob
was

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted,

closed.

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the

flipper

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and

then

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS

the

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the

coil,

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing.

Replaced

Post by pinbob
the

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers

slowly

Post by Lloyd Olson

Post by Ron Lyons
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[Ron Lyons]

That's what I did, the last time, though. A brand new coil, with 2 brand
new diodes on it, and replaced both hold and power transistors, and it did
the same thing.

Ron

Post by Lloyd Olson
Instead of going back and forth all night, one bad thing destroys other parts,
replace them and them blow up more, I'd stick in a new flipper coil, new
diodes, new hold and power transistors. Otherwise you'll be going back and
forth all night and not get it working. LTG :)

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[Lloyd Olson]

Be sure you get the wires right, be sure the new parts are good. LTG :)

Post by Ron Lyons
That's what I did, the last time, though. A brand new coil, with 2 brand
new diodes on it, and replaced both hold and power transistors, and it did
the same thing.
Ron

[s***@excite.com]

boy, that's weird, the transistor that sinks the current is either ON
or Off, it shouldn't act like a variable SCR and S-l-o-w-l-y pull
flippers up. (In fact I don't even think it CAN do something like
that, unless the transistor is flipping on and off so quickly that the
frequency of it is causing it to pull in more often, causing the
flippers to go totally up.)

Add to Lloyd's suggestions below, double check your flipper opto
boards, it sounds like you are getting a frequency type thing causing
the flipping, so it's a signal issue, are the transistors on the
fliptronics boards getting REALLY hot? Do you happen to have another
fliptronics I board to swap in there (probably not, I think F1 is only
for adaams, can you put a fliptronics 2 board in there somehow?)

Does aadams even HAVE opto flipper switches?

At any rate I think it's a signal problem..... what does it do when you
put it in flipper test mode and the machine flips flippers for you,
same thing?

[Del]

I Agree W/ LTG here & if you don't replace everything in that
circuit, you'll just be blowing the same parts over & over again,
Pin-Del.

[Ron Lyons]

Yeah, it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. You'll play, and they'll
start sticking up, and if you hit the left button, both will fall back down,
or whatever... then right in front of you, they slowwwwly raise. Hit the
button again, and the left falls back where it should be, the right stays
engaged and blows the fuse (and the transistor). The second time it did it,
I replaced the coil, (with 2 new diodes on it), and the 36c transistor as
well as the tip102 transistor. Did the exact same thing.

Doesn't have opto switches, it's just got the traditional leaf switches, and
I checked them, they're fine. End of stroke switch is fine, and I don't
have another fliptronics board to put in, unfortunately :(

Ron

Post by s***@excite.com
boy, that's weird, the transistor that sinks the current is either ON
or Off, it shouldn't act like a variable SCR and S-l-o-w-l-y pull
flippers up. (In fact I don't even think it CAN do something like
that, unless the transistor is flipping on and off so quickly that the
frequency of it is causing it to pull in more often, causing the
flippers to go totally up.)
Add to Lloyd's suggestions below, double check your flipper opto
boards, it sounds like you are getting a frequency type thing causing
the flipping, so it's a signal issue, are the transistors on the
fliptronics boards getting REALLY hot? Do you happen to have another
fliptronics I board to swap in there (probably not, I think F1 is only
for adaams, can you put a fliptronics 2 board in there somehow?)
Does aadams even HAVE opto flipper switches?
At any rate I think it's a signal problem..... what does it do when you
put it in flipper test mode and the machine flips flippers for you,
same thing?

[Victor Ireland]

Just went through something like this on an Addams.

Take out the Fliptronics board (again), flip it over, and look at the
lead that controls the HOLD for the lower right flipper. It may be
toasted or barely there, making only sporatic contact (your case) or
none at all (my case). Run a new wire segment from the transistor to
the pin point on the back for any leads that look (act, if you're
checking with a multimeter) like this. I did both hold leads (lower
R/L) and problem solved.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:47:39 GMT, "Ron Lyons"

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[Ron Lyons]

Thank you Victor (and Lloyd) for your help, I'll check that out as soon as
possible and let everybody know if it fixed it.

Thanks again,

Ron

Post by Victor Ireland
Just went through something like this on an Addams.
Take out the Fliptronics board (again), flip it over, and look at the
lead that controls the HOLD for the lower right flipper. It may be
toasted or barely there, making only sporatic contact (your case) or
none at all (my case). Run a new wire segment from the transistor to
the pin point on the back for any leads that look (act, if you're
checking with a multimeter) like this. I did both hold leads (lower
R/L) and problem solved.
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 22:47:39 GMT, "Ron Lyons"

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[j s]

If your flippers are creeping up slowly, then the low power (hold) side of
the coil is energized.
Sounds like the transistors that drive the low sides of both coils are toast
for openers. Might double check the proper wires going to the proper
terminals on the coil, too. Good luck.

-spazzman

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[Ron Lyons]

Thank you, I'll try that and let everybody know.

Ron

Post by j s
If your flippers are creeping up slowly, then the low power (hold) side of
the coil is energized.
Sounds like the transistors that drive the low sides of both coils are toast
for openers. Might double check the proper wires going to the proper
terminals on the coil, too. Good luck.
-spazzman

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron

[Fred Kemper]

I just had the same problem on two different Addams
flipper boards. The hold transistor for the left flippers
was bad but checked good on _both_boards. The
operator had swapped and damaged both boards.

Original problem was cracked diode on flipper coil.

Coil changed. Operator installed defective, (shorted),
NEW coil. Damaged more stuff....

Replaced coil, replaced hold transistors.

Both boards fine.

Game works, making money.
--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************

Post by j s
If your flippers are creeping up slowly, then the low power (hold) side of
the coil is energized.
Sounds like the transistors that drive the low sides of both coils are toast
for openers. Might double check the proper wires going to the proper
terminals on the coil, too. Good luck.
-spazzman

Post by Ron Lyons
I'm having some really strange problems on an Addams Family pinball, and any
help would be appreciated. I read around at Clay's site, and thought I had
it figured out, but no dice!
Anyways, the first thing that happened was the bottom right flipper went
dead. Checked the fuse, it's blown... replace the fuse, turn the game on,
and the right flipper sticks up (electically, not physically), it blows the
fuse again, flipper falls back down.
So I read on Clay's site that this is probably the 36c transistor, and
possibly the Tip102 before it, so I checked the 36c, and sure enough, it was
shorted closed. I checked the tip 102, and it too showed shorted, closed.
So, I replaced the 36c, then rechecked the tip102, and it was fine...
apparently the short reading was because it was connecting through the
shorted out 36c?
Anyways, plug the game in, everything's fine, but when you hit the flipper
button, the flipper sticks up, until you hit the left flipper, then they
both fall. Eventually, BOTH left & right flippers slowly rise up, and then
when you hit the button, the left fell, and the right stayed on until it
blew the fuse again.
Checked the 36c, again it's shorted out. So, I replaced the 36c, PLUS the
Tip102 driving it (which showed shorted, again)... also checked the coil,
and the coil on the bottom right flipper had 1 diode missing. Replaced the
coil, with one with 2 diodes, as it's supposed to have.
Plugged the game back in, it's doing the same thing, both flippers slowly
stick up in the middle of the game, one will stay up until you hit the
button, etc... eventually after a few seconds (30 seconds of play?) the
right flipper sticks up, and blows the fuse, AND the 36c transistor.
Any ideas of where to look next?
Thanks,
Ron