1964 Sea Shore after first ball help request

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Tony Cape

2020-11-25 12:25:21 UTC

I'm still learning to read Gottlieb schematics.

It seems to start up fine and there was a disconnected wire I found that kept the "ball in play" lights from coming on. Now when I start a game after the first ball first player drains the balls played unit pulses 5 times and winds up on 3rd ball second player, then after that ball drains it goes to 5th ball 1st player.

On the balls played unit when I manually advance it it goes:
first player first ball
2nd player first ball
first player second ball
2nd player second ball
first player third ball
2nd player third ball
etc

My question: after the first player first ball drains and it's a one player game, shouldn't it pulse 2 times to get to first player second ball?

As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

Tony Cape

2020-11-25 12:51:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by Tony Cape
I'm still learning to read Gottlieb schematics.
It seems to start up fine and there was a disconnected wire I found that kept the "ball in play" lights from coming on. Now when I start a game after the first ball first player drains the balls played unit pulses 5 times and winds up on 3rd ball second player, then after that ball drains it goes to 5th ball 1st player.
first player first ball
2nd player first ball
first player second ball
2nd player second ball
first player third ball
2nd player third ball
etc
My question: after the first player first ball drains and it's a one player game, shouldn't it pulse 2 times to get to first player second ball?
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

Correction- noticed when on 5 ball it plays as described above, but when I change the jumper to 3 ball it plays first player first ball, pulses 5 times to 2nd player third ball then after that ball drains, it's game over.

Dan Beck

2020-11-25 18:33:24 UTC

Permalink

Post by Tony Cape

Yes, it is supposed to pulse twice to get to first player second ball.

Post by Tony Cape

Post by Tony Cape
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

So what I am reading here is that a 5 ball games plays normally, whereas a 3 ball game doesn’t? What is the behavior exhibited when it’s a 5 ball, two player game?

I remember I had a similar problem, but it was easily explained by the fact the rotating assembly in the balls player unit was loose, and needed to be tightened down properly...

Regards,
Dan

Tony Cape

2020-11-25 18:46:46 UTC

Permalink

Post by Dan Beck

Post by Tony Cape

Yes, it is supposed to pulse twice to get to first player second ball.

Post by Tony Cape

Post by Tony Cape
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

So what I am reading here is that a 5 ball games plays normally, whereas a 3 ball game doesn’t? What is the behavior exhibited when it’s a 5 ball, two player game?
I remember I had a similar problem, but it was easily explained by the fact the rotating assembly in the balls player unit was loose, and needed to be tightened down properly...
Regards,
Dan

Thanks for the reply!

1 player game.
on a 3 ball game it starts first player first ball, then when first ball drains it goes to 3rd ball second player, then game over after drain. so 3 ball setting knows when 3rd ball ends to end game
On a 5 ball game it starts first player first ball, then after drain, 2nd player 3rd ball, then after drain first player 5th ball, then after drain, game over

something is pulsing the add balls played unit coil instead of 2 pulses to go from player one first ball to player one second ball, 5 pulses and puts it on 2nd player 3rd ball. I'm in the process of trying to identify what relays are firing to make it pulse 5 instead of 2

Dan Beck

2020-11-25 19:52:47 UTC

Yes, it is supposed to pulse twice to get to first player second ball.

Post by Tony Cape

Post by Tony Cape
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

So what I am reading here is that a 5 ball games plays normally, whereas a 3 ball game doesn’t? What is the behavior exhibited when it’s a 5 ball, two player game?
I remember I had a similar problem, but it was easily explained by the fact the rotating assembly in the balls player unit was loose, and needed to be tightened down properly...
Regards,
Dan

Thanks for the reply!
1 player game.
on a 3 ball game it starts first player first ball, then when first ball drains it goes to 3rd ball second player, then game over after drain. so 3 ball setting knows when 3rd ball ends to end game
On a 5 ball game it starts first player first ball, then after drain, 2nd player 3rd ball, then after drain first player 5th ball, then after drain, game over
something is pulsing the add balls played unit coil instead of 2 pulses to go from player one first ball to player one second ball, 5 pulses and puts it on 2nd player 3rd ball. I'm in the process of trying to identify what relays are firing to make it pulse 5 instead of 2

Dan Beck

2020-11-25 20:12:13 UTC

Yes, it is supposed to pulse twice to get to first player second ball.

Post by Tony Cape

Post by Tony Cape
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

So what I am reading here is that a 5 ball games plays normally, whereas a 3 ball game doesn’t? What is the behavior exhibited when it’s a 5 ball, two player game?
I remember I had a similar problem, but it was easily explained by the fact the rotating assembly in the balls player unit was loose, and needed to be tightened down properly...
Regards,
Dan

Thanks for the reply!
1 player game.
on a 3 ball game it starts first player first ball, then when first ball drains it goes to 3rd ball second player, then game over after drain. so 3 ball setting knows when 3rd ball ends to end game
On a 5 ball game it starts first player first ball, then after drain, 2nd player 3rd ball, then after drain first player 5th ball, then after drain, game over
something is pulsing the add balls played unit coil instead of 2 pulses to go from player one first ball to player one second ball, 5 pulses and puts it on 2nd player 3rd ball. I'm in the process of trying to identify what relays are firing to make it pulse 5 instead of 2

Oops, I am not very good with the new format...
Anyway, I think it would be instructive to follow along the schematic what is happening. When the ball drains, it closes a succession of trough switches. One trough switch energizes the B relay. 5 NO B relay switches close; one of the five starts the motor running, another closes the circuit to fire the add balls played unit, through 2 motor switches, and an O, XB, and PB switch. This is clearly indicated on the schematic. It may be that one of those several switches is fouled and needs to be cleaned. Remember, the only way the add balls played solenoid fires (which seems to be faulty in your game), is that outlined circuit.

Regards,
Dan

Tony Cape

2020-11-26 00:16:16 UTC

Yes, it is supposed to pulse twice to get to first player second ball.

Post by Tony Cape

Post by Tony Cape
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

So what I am reading here is that a 5 ball games plays normally, whereas a 3 ball game doesn’t? What is the behavior exhibited when it’s a 5 ball, two player game?
I remember I had a similar problem, but it was easily explained by the fact the rotating assembly in the balls player unit was loose, and needed to be tightened down properly...
Regards,
Dan

Thanks for the reply!
1 player game.
on a 3 ball game it starts first player first ball, then when first ball drains it goes to 3rd ball second player, then game over after drain. so 3 ball setting knows when 3rd ball ends to end game
On a 5 ball game it starts first player first ball, then after drain, 2nd player 3rd ball, then after drain first player 5th ball, then after drain, game over
something is pulsing the add balls played unit coil instead of 2 pulses to go from player one first ball to player one second ball, 5 pulses and puts it on 2nd player 3rd ball. I'm in the process of trying to identify what relays are firing to make it pulse 5 instead of 2

Thanks for the direction, I will start there.

Tony Cape

2020-11-26 15:08:11 UTC

Yes, it is supposed to pulse twice to get to first player second ball.

Post by Tony Cape

Post by Tony Cape
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

So what I am reading here is that a 5 ball games plays normally, whereas a 3 ball game doesn’t? What is the behavior exhibited when it’s a 5 ball, two player game?
I remember I had a similar problem, but it was easily explained by the fact the rotating assembly in the balls player unit was loose, and needed to be tightened down properly...
Regards,
Dan

Thanks for the reply!
1 player game.
on a 3 ball game it starts first player first ball, then when first ball drains it goes to 3rd ball second player, then game over after drain. so 3 ball setting knows when 3rd ball ends to end game
On a 5 ball game it starts first player first ball, then after drain, 2nd player 3rd ball, then after drain first player 5th ball, then after drain, game over
something is pulsing the add balls played unit coil instead of 2 pulses to go from player one first ball to player one second ball, 5 pulses and puts it on 2nd player 3rd ball. I'm in the process of trying to identify what relays are firing to make it pulse 5 instead of 2

Thanks for the direction, I will start there.

The problem was the 1D switch. On the score motor there are two switches at 1D, one was open slightly when it should have been closed and the other one was closed slightly when it should have open.

Did have a bit of a scare though, I had been manually advancing the score motor to determine the switches operation and after adjustment plugged the machine in and nothing came on when I hit the replay button. After verifying I had 120 at the the transformer primary I manually advanced the score motor till it started and stopped on it's own, then everything was fine.

Successfully played a 1 player 5 ball game, then a 2 player 5 ball game with no issues!

Dan Beck

2020-11-27 16:56:07 UTC

Yes, it is supposed to pulse twice to get to first player second ball.

Post by Tony Cape

Post by Tony Cape
As an FYI it seems like the 3-5 ball adjustment does nothing, it behaves the same way no matter which position its in.

So what I am reading here is that a 5 ball games plays normally, whereas a 3 ball game doesn’t? What is the behavior exhibited when it’s a 5 ball, two player game?
I remember I had a similar problem, but it was easily explained by the fact the rotating assembly in the balls player unit was loose, and needed to be tightened down properly...
Regards,
Dan

Thanks for the reply!
1 player game.
on a 3 ball game it starts first player first ball, then when first ball drains it goes to 3rd ball second player, then game over after drain. so 3 ball setting knows when 3rd ball ends to end game
On a 5 ball game it starts first player first ball, then after drain, 2nd player 3rd ball, then after drain first player 5th ball, then after drain, game over
something is pulsing the add balls played unit coil instead of 2 pulses to go from player one first ball to player one second ball, 5 pulses and puts it on 2nd player 3rd ball. I'm in the process of trying to identify what relays are firing to make it pulse 5 instead of 2

Thanks for the direction, I will start there.

The problem was the 1D switch. On the score motor there are two switches at 1D, one was open slightly when it should have been closed and the other one was closed slightly when it should have open.
Did have a bit of a scare though, I had been manually advancing the score motor to determine the switches operation and after adjustment plugged the machine in and nothing came on when I hit the replay button. After verifying I had 120 at the the transformer primary I manually advanced the score motor till it started and stopped on it's own, then everything was fine.
Successfully played a 1 player 5 ball game, then a 2 player 5 ball game with no issues!

Terrific! Does it play normally with a 3 ball game?

Yes, when the score motor is between stops it will completely disable a game. It’s always a good idea to have that score motor properly stopped when making assessments.

Dan