questions regarding fuses in EM game

Discussion:

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Mark_in_PA

2008-01-19 04:46:07 UTC

Machine has a fuse holder labeled:

6V 10A
6V 20A
50V 15A
115V 10A

I would like to confirm what is installed is correct and order some
spares.

These are AGC (1.25") fuses. Does anyone know if the 6V 10A and 115V
10A fuse can be the same fuse if it is rated for at least 115V?

The schematic does not specify fast or slo-blo. Any idea what they
used back in the 50's?

thanks

2008-01-19 04:57:36 UTC

Permalink

Post by Mark_in_PA
6V 10A
6V 20A
50V 15A
115V 10A
I would like to confirm what is installed is correct and order some
spares.
These are AGC (1.25") fuses. Does anyone know if the 6V 10A and 115V
10A fuse can be the same fuse if it is rated for at least 115V?
The schematic does not specify fast or slo-blo. Any idea what they
used back in the 50's?
thanks

Mark,

Yes, If the highest "Voltage" fuse is purchased it will be fine in all
locations. AGC fuses by definition will be 250V (double check this if
you're going to buy these at an auto parts store). The voltage rating
of a fuse determines how far apart the element will separate within
the glass if blown, insuring there will be no arcing .

Be sure not to substitute current (Amp) ratings.

All fuses in your game will be the fast blow type.

AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com

Mark_in_PA

2008-01-19 05:02:30 UTC

Permalink

Post by AL

Mark,
Yes, If the highest "Voltage" fuse is purchased it will be fine in all
locations. AGC fuses by definition will be 250V (double check this if
you're going to buy these at an auto parts store). The voltage rating
of a fuse determines how far apart the element will separate within
the glass if blown, insuring there will be no arcing .
Be sure not to substitute current (Amp) ratings.
All fuses in your game will be the fast blow type.
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)www.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Thanks Al,

just wanted to be sure. It's my first EM game - a '57 Bally Trophy
Bowler. There may be EM pinballs in my future, too!

Mark

Fuey

2008-01-19 05:04:34 UTC

Permalink

Fast blow....sounds like a girl I knew in high school..... ;)

-Mike

Post by AL
All fuses in your game will be the fast blow type.
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com

greenacarina

2008-01-19 05:53:24 UTC

Permalink

Yes, If the highest "Voltage" fuse is purchased it will be fine in all
locations. AGC fuses by definition will be 250V (double check this if
you're going to buy these at an auto parts store). The voltage rating
of a fuse determines how far apart the element will separate within
the glass if blown, insuring there will be no arcing .

Be sure not to substitute current (Amp) ratings.

All fuses in your game will be the fast blow type.

AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com

You know, this has been a long-running debate where I work! None of us could
ever understand why a fuse would be voltage specific. Thanks for the info!!
:)
Chris

Mark_in_PA

2008-01-19 06:10:08 UTC

Permalink

Post by AL
Yes, If the highest "Voltage" fuse is purchased it will be fine in all
locations. AGC fuses by definition will be 250V (double check this if
you're going to buy these at an auto parts store). The voltage rating
of a fuse determines how far apart the element will separate within
the glass if blown, insuring there will be no arcing .
Be sure not to substitute current (Amp) ratings.
All fuses in your game will be the fast blow type.
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)www.Team-EM.com
You know, this has been a long-running debate where I work! None of us could
ever understand why a fuse would be voltage specific. Thanks for the info!!
:)
Chris

It is counter-intuitive that these older games with not much in the
way of delicate electronics use fast-blo and the 90's WMS with their
circuit boards/components use slo-blo. Can anybody explain that?

metallik

2008-01-19 07:00:00 UTC

Permalink

Post by Mark_in_PA
It is counter-intuitive that these older games with not much in the
way of delicate electronics use fast-blo and the 90's WMS with their
circuit boards/components use slo-blo. Can anybody explain that?

Just a guess, but capacitor surge on powerup? Maybe they had trouble
with the occasional fast blow fuse popping despite no faults, and
started using slow blows to cut down on service calls?

2008-01-19 07:47:44 UTC

Permalink

Just a guess, but capacitor surge on powerup? Maybe they had trouble
with the occasional fast blow fuse popping despite no faults, and
started using slow blows to cut down on service calls?

Well, if that's just a guess, it's a pretty good one. : ) A lot of
devices (transistors, caps, diodes) would not be instantly damaged by
excessive current, but could be damaged by the heat generated from
sustained power dissipation.

Slow-Blow fuses can withstand (IIRC) 600-800% of their rated current
momentarily, but begin to drop in their tolerance to their rated value
within a matter of 1-4 seconds.

Oh, and a correction to my previous post regarding AGC "by definition"
being 250V. Not true, but 250V is a common Voltage value for this
size.

AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com

Lloyd Olson

2008-01-19 04:59:27 UTC

Permalink

Voltage I believe matters, they will be fast blow. LTG :)

Mark_in_PA

2008-01-19 05:06:41 UTC

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Voltage I believe matters, they will be fast blow. LTG :)

- Show quoted text -

Lloyd, so if the label inside the door has 2 fuses listed:

6V 10A
115V 10A

they would be 2 different types of fuses? I'm trying to figure out
what to order from Mouser which is why I'm asking.

thanks

2008-01-19 05:10:36 UTC

Permalink

Post by Mark_in_PA

Voltage I believe matters, they will be fast blow. LTG :)

- Show quoted text -

6V 10A
115V 10A
they would be 2 different types of fuses? I'm trying to figure out
what to order from Mouser which is why I'm asking.
thanks- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Mark,

Go ahead and order "AGC 10" for both applications.

AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com

c***@provide.net

2008-01-19 12:26:25 UTC

Permalink

You are confused.
The game is labeling the power voltages,
NOT the fuse voltage ratings.

It's trying to tell you that
Fuse#1 is for the 6 volt G.I. Lighting (probably to the backbox)
Fuse#2 is for the 6 volt G.I. lighting (probably for the playfield)
Fuse#3 is for the 50 volt solenoid line
Fuse#4 is for the line voltage (115 volts)

Just buy some standard 1.25" fuses at 10amp, 15amp
and 20 amp. Go to radio shack and get them.

DOC DOOM

2008-01-20 18:41:21 UTC

Permalink

Post by c***@provide.net
You are confused.
The game is labeling the power voltages,
NOT the fuse voltage ratings.
It's trying to tell you that
Fuse#1 is for the 6 volt G.I. Lighting (probably to the backbox)
Fuse#2 is for the 6 volt G.I. lighting (probably for the playfield)
Fuse#3 is for the 50 volt solenoid line
Fuse#4 is for the line voltage (115 volts)
Just buy some standard 1.25"fusesat 10amp, 15amp
and 20 amp. Go to radio shack and get them.

- Show quoted text -

MAN you guys can really put way to much thought into things...These
are fuses on an arcade game!!! Not the damn space shuttle!!!
Clays is correct, besides being precise, short, and to the point!!

DOC DOOM

cz34n9

2008-01-23 17:14:36 UTC

Permalink

A fuse rated at 250 volts can be safely used at any voltage up to 250
volts.

Fuses have a small resistance which causes them to generate heat when
current flows through them (I squared R law). If the heat can't be
dissipated as fast as it is created, the fusible link will melt.

If you exceed the voltage rating of the fuse, you run the risk of the
fuse not being able to interrupt the current flow due to electrical
arcing inside the fuse body.

The spec sheets on the bussman web site provide the following data.

AGC fuses 250V (fast blow).
http://www.bussmann.com/pdf/b040436b-cbc7-495d-95a6-99fe85202786.pdf
An AGC fuse will carry the rated current indefinitly.
At 135% of rated current it will blow within 60 minutes.
At 200% of rated current it will blow within 120 seconds.

MDL fuses 250V (slow blow).
http://www.bussmann.com/pdf/98a9c763-9040-4280-a255-151b3dbca2f3.pdf
An MDL fuse will carry the rated current indefinitly.
At 135% of rated current it will blow within 60 minutes.
At 200% of rated current it will blow within 120 seconds.

Both fuses provide the same basic protection for your circuit.

The difference is that the slow blow can handle very brief surges of
inrush current better than the fast blow.

AGC 10 amp will allow 300 amps for 0.01 sec
MDL 10 amp will allow 600 amps for 0.01 sec

Use fast blow unless the schematic specifically calls for slow blow.
You don't want to allow any extra potentially destructive energy to flow
through your circuits.