Discussion:
Tech: SS Joker Poker Kings not resetting
(too old to reply)
r***@msn.com
2007-08-06 19:01:32 UTC
Permalink
I'm having two problems with my Joker Poker, they may be related.

1) the Kings are not resetting. I replaced the coil but they don't
reset.
2) the machine seems (at times) to be a little slow to respond to
actions like starting a game.

Any suggestions?
mikeo
2007-08-06 19:35:42 UTC
Permalink
The Kings drop targets are driven by a separate transistor on the
under side of the playfield. This transistor gets very hot as seen by
the burn mark discoloration on the top side of the playfield in the
area of the ace of clubs at the aces bonus.

First, did you confirm the fuse for this drop target bank is not the
culprit? It resides near the drop target bank in the center of the
playfield if memory serves me correctly.

Once you replace this fuse, if they reset once, the reset coil holds
in, and then the fuse blows again, you probably have a stuck on driver
transistor. I believe the original is a 2n5875, but from what I have
read on Clay's fix it guide, a 5880, 5881, 5882, or 5883 will work as
well.

Let us know your results.

Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
I'm having two problems with my Joker Poker, they may be related.
1) the Kings are not resetting. I replaced the coil but they don't
reset.
2) the machine seems (at times) to be a little slow to respond to
actions like starting a game.
Any suggestions?
c***@Team-EM.com
2007-08-06 19:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by mikeo
The Kings drop targets are driven by a separate transistor on the
under side of the playfield. This transistor gets very hot as seen by
the burn mark discoloration on the top side of the playfield in the
area of the ace of clubs at the aces bonus.
First, did you confirm the fuse for this drop target bank is not the
culprit? It resides near the drop target bank in the center of the
playfield if memory serves me correctly.
Once you replace this fuse, if they reset once, the reset coil holds
in, and then the fuse blows again, you probably have a stuck on driver
transistor. I believe the original is a 2n5875, but from what I have
read on Clay's fix it guide, a 5880, 5881, 5882, or 5883 will work as
well.
Let us know your results.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
I'm having two problems with my Joker Poker, they may be related.
1) the Kings are not resetting. I replaced the coil but they don't
reset.
2) the machine seems (at times) to be a little slow to respond to
actions like starting a game.
Any suggestions?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
Steve Kulpa
2007-08-06 20:13:11 UTC
Permalink
... and replace both if one or the other is blown

and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.

steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
r***@msn.com
2007-08-11 22:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm- Pinballhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.

I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.

When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.

Any other ideas?

Rich
mikeo
2007-08-12 00:03:06 UTC
Permalink
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.

Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.

Check for voltage at the reset coil.

If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.

You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.


Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm- Faces
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
c***@Team-EM.com
2007-08-12 00:13:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...Faces
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Agree with Mike. Just replace the predriver transistor. A transistor
can test bad, but it can never test good. It isn't being tested under
load, so results aren't always correct. At the very least, you
eliminate the transistor as a possibility by replacing it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
mikeo
2007-08-12 00:25:19 UTC
Permalink
I went looking at my JP manual and it is less than clear as to what
transistor is the predriver for the Kings reset coil. I can't find
reference to driver transistor either although I know it is the one on
the bottom of the playfield as I had to replace this transistor on my
game.

Can someone identify specifically which transistor is the predriver
for the kings drop target reset coil?

Mike O.
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Agree with Mike. Just replace the predriver transistor. A transistor
can test bad, but it can never test good. It isn't being tested under
load, so results aren't always correct. At the very least, you
eliminate the transistor as a possibility by replacing it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Steve Kulpa
2007-08-12 00:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Q17

http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/jp_sl.htm


steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
Post by mikeo
I went looking at my JP manual and it is less than clear as to what
transistor is the predriver for the Kings reset coil. I can't find
reference to driver transistor either although I know it is the one on
the bottom of the playfield as I had to replace this transistor on my
game.
Can someone identify specifically which transistor is the predriver
for the kings drop target reset coil?
Mike O.
Gott Lieb?
2007-08-12 00:39:29 UTC
Permalink
The predriven transistor is Q17. It's listed on page 16 of the manual.

Jim
Post by mikeo
I went looking at my JP manual and it is less than clear as to what
transistor is the predriver for the Kings reset coil. I can't find
reference to driver transistor either although I know it is the one on
the bottom of the playfield as I had to replace this transistor on my
game.
Can someone identify specifically which transistor is the predriver
for the kings drop target reset coil?
Mike O.
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Agree with Mike. Just replace the predriver transistor. A transistor
can test bad, but it can never test good. It isn't being tested under
load, so results aren't always correct. At the very least, you
eliminate the transistor as a possibility by replacing it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
c***@Team-EM.com
2007-08-12 00:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...Faces
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
r***@msn.com
2007-08-12 12:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I used an NTE219, the local electronics shop told me it was the
replacement. When i pulled the old transistor, it had the markings of
REN219 then under it was 7825. To answer another question, I was
concerned that I might have put the transistor in backwards, since
there are no markings on the bottom of the case. I think it's
installed correctly, I used Clay's testing mechanism and the current
only flows one way.

Now for the second issue. I'm concerned about doing circuit board
repairs. I've not done it before and I know I'm not the best at
soldering. I know the basics, took electronics in high school (many
years ago). I'm thinking of replacing the board(s), I'm trying to
determine if I try each board individually, or if I bite the bullet
and buy Pascal's all in one.

Any thoughts, suggestions?
Steve Kulpa
2007-08-12 14:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Send me your driver board and I'll repair it for you.
Include the transistor mount and I'll install a new one w/ wires on it
labeled as to where they need to go.
(you're going to have to do *some* soldering) :-)


steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
Post by r***@msn.com
Any thoughts, suggestions
c***@Team-EM.com
2007-08-12 19:40:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I used an NTE219, the local electronics shop told me it was the
replacement. When i pulled the old transistor, it had the markings of
REN219 then under it was 7825. To answer another question, I was
concerned that I might have put the transistor in backwards, since
there are no markings on the bottom of the case. I think it's
installed correctly, I used Clay's testing mechanism and the current
only flows one way.
Now for the second issue. I'm concerned about doing circuit board
repairs. I've not done it before and I know I'm not the best at
soldering. I know the basics, took electronics in high school (many
years ago). I'm thinking of replacing the board(s), I'm trying to
determine if I try each board individually, or if I bite the bullet
and buy Pascal's all in one.
Any thoughts, suggestions?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you're in St. Louis, I'd be happy to do it for you too.
Otherwise, take Steve up on his offer. He's knows what he's doing, and
does it well.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
mikeo
2007-08-12 20:11:18 UTC
Permalink
Like Steve and Chris both state, have one of them/us do it for you.
It's only a $1 part and is a simple swap for one of them/us and they/
we can also test the board in their/our games. No need to go so far
as to buy a $300 Pascal board, even though it is an excellent product.

Mike O.
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I used an NTE219, the local electronics shop told me it was the
replacement. When i pulled the old transistor, it had the markings of
REN219 then under it was 7825. To answer another question, I was
concerned that I might have put the transistor in backwards, since
there are no markings on the bottom of the case. I think it's
installed correctly, I used Clay's testing mechanism and the current
only flows one way.
Now for the second issue. I'm concerned about doing circuit board
repairs. I've not done it before and I know I'm not the best at
soldering. I know the basics, took electronics in high school (many
years ago). I'm thinking of replacing the board(s), I'm trying to
determine if I try each board individually, or if I bite the bullet
and buy Pascal's all in one.
Any thoughts, suggestions?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you're in St. Louis, I'd be happy to do it for you too.
Otherwise, take Steve up on his offer. He's knows what he's doing, and
does it well.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
mikeo
2007-08-12 20:17:36 UTC
Permalink
One last thought on your problem. There is the possibility that the
IC (SN74175N) that controls the predriver transistor (Q17) for the
kings drop target reset is the culprit. I just had to replace one on
the driver board for my Count Down to get a switched lamp to come on.
It was stuck off and the IC was the problem.

Again, if you send it to Steve or Chris, or myself (I'm in the Kansas
City area) we could debug the driver board as well as easily replace
the culprit parts.

Mike O.
Post by mikeo
Like Steve and Chris both state, have one of them/us do it for you.
It's only a $1 part and is a simple swap for one of them/us and they/
we can also test the board in their/our games. No need to go so far
as to buy a $300 Pascal board, even though it is an excellent product.
Mike O.
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext -
- Show quoted text -
I used an NTE219, the local electronics shop told me it was the
replacement. When i pulled the old transistor, it had the markings of
REN219 then under it was 7825. To answer another question, I was
concerned that I might have put the transistor in backwards, since
there are no markings on the bottom of the case. I think it's
installed correctly, I used Clay's testing mechanism and the current
only flows one way.
Now for the second issue. I'm concerned about doing circuit board
repairs. I've not done it before and I know I'm not the best at
soldering. I know the basics, took electronics in high school (many
years ago). I'm thinking of replacing the board(s), I'm trying to
determine if I try each board individually, or if I bite the bullet
and buy Pascal's all in one.
Any thoughts, suggestions?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you're in St. Louis, I'd be happy to do it for you too.
Otherwise, take Steve up on his offer. He's knows what he's doing, and
does it well.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Jim Smith
2007-08-12 21:41:39 UTC
Permalink
I had a similar issue with my JP, and had replaced the under-pf
transistor also. The board was a brand-new Ni-Wumpf, so no problems
there. Be SURE to install the pull-up resistor as detailed on Clay's
site:
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys80/index1.htm (section 1g.)

Once installed, my game worked perfectly.

Jim S.
Phoenix
Post by mikeo
One last thought on your problem. There is the possibility that the
IC (SN74175N) that controls the predriver transistor (Q17) for the
kings drop target reset is the culprit. I just had to replace one on
the driver board for my Count Down to get a switched lamp to come on.
It was stuck off and the IC was the problem.
Again, if you send it to Steve or Chris, or myself (I'm in the Kansas
City area) we could debug the driver board as well as easily replace
the culprit parts.
Mike O.
Post by mikeo
Like Steve and Chris both state, have one of them/us do it for you.
It's only a $1 part and is a simple swap for one of them/us and they/
we can also test the board in their/our games. No need to go so far
as to buy a $300 Pascal board, even though it is an excellent product.
Mike O.
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext -
- Show quoted text -
I used an NTE219, the local electronics shop told me it was the
replacement. When i pulled the old transistor, it had the markings of
REN219 then under it was 7825. To answer another question, I was
concerned that I might have put the transistor in backwards, since
there are no markings on the bottom of the case. I think it's
installed correctly, I used Clay's testing mechanism and the current
only flows one way.
Now for the second issue. I'm concerned about doing circuit board
repairs. I've not done it before and I know I'm not the best at
soldering. I know the basics, took electronics in high school (many
years ago). I'm thinking of replacing the board(s), I'm trying to
determine if I try each board individually, or if I bite the bullet
and buy Pascal's all in one.
Any thoughts, suggestions?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you're in St. Louis, I'd be happy to do it for you too.
Otherwise, take Steve up on his offer. He's knows what he's doing, and
does it well.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Steve Kulpa
2007-08-12 21:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Istill need to apply the pull-up on mine - just never enought time.
My JP fires the Kings reset when I power it up.
I've heard that that will stop after I install the pullup. Maybe
I'll get off my ass and do it now! Maybe.

steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
Post by Jim Smith
Be SURE to install the pull-up resistor as detailed on Clay's
site:http://www.pinrepair.com/sys80/index1.htm (section 1g.)
Gott Lieb?
2007-08-12 22:18:32 UTC
Permalink
If memory serves me right, the kings DT reset coil still pulsed slightly
on startup with the pull up resistor installed on my last JP. It just
wasn't as prominent.

Jim
Post by Steve Kulpa
Istill need to apply the pull-up on mine - just never enought time.
My JP fires the Kings reset when I power it up.
I've heard that that will stop after I install the pullup. Maybe
I'll get off my ass and do it now! Maybe.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
r***@msn.com
2007-08-13 17:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Smith
I had a similar issue with my JP, and had replaced the under-pf
transistor also. The board was a brand-new Ni-Wumpf, so no problems
there. Be SURE to install the pull-up resistor as detailed on Clay's
site:http://www.pinrepair.com/sys80/index1.htm (section 1g.)
Once installed, my game worked perfectly.
Jim S.
Phoenix
Post by mikeo
One last thought on your problem. There is the possibility that the
IC (SN74175N) that controls the predriver transistor (Q17) for the
kings drop target reset is the culprit. I just had to replace one on
the driver board for my Count Down to get a switched lamp to come on.
It was stuck off and the IC was the problem.
Again, if you send it to Steve or Chris, or myself (I'm in the Kansas
City area) we could debug the driver board as well as easily replace
the culprit parts.
Mike O.
Post by mikeo
Like Steve and Chris both state, have one of them/us do it for you.
It's only a $1 part and is a simple swap for one of them/us and they/
we can also test the board in their/our games. No need to go so far
as to buy a $300 Pascal board, even though it is an excellent product.
Mike O.
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -
I used an NTE219, the local electronics shop told me it was the
replacement. When i pulled the old transistor, it had the markings of
REN219 then under it was 7825. To answer another question, I was
concerned that I might have put the transistor in backwards, since
there are no markings on the bottom of the case. I think it's
installed correctly, I used Clay's testing mechanism and the current
only flows one way.
Now for the second issue. I'm concerned about doing circuit board
repairs. I've not done it before and I know I'm not the best at
soldering. I know the basics, took electronics in high school (many
years ago). I'm thinking of replacing the board(s), I'm trying to
determine if I try each board individually, or if I bite the bullet
and buy Pascal's all in one.
Any thoughts, suggestions?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you're in St. Louis, I'd be happy to do it for you too.
Otherwise, take Steve up on his offer. He's knows what he's doing, and
does it well.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The pull-up resistor mod is listed for the system 80, Do I still need
this mod for the System 1?
Gott Lieb?
2007-08-13 17:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Yes. Joker Poker was the first Gottlieb to have an added transistor
under the playfield. The pull resistor modification bulletin just
wasn't released by Gottlieb until Sys80's hit the streets.

Jim
Post by r***@msn.com
The pull-up resistor mod is listed for the system 80, Do I still need
this mod for the System 1?
Steve C
2007-08-14 04:25:56 UTC
Permalink
I believe the 7825 you are reading is a date code, not a part number.

stevebo
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Post by mikeo
As Steve suggested, I would replace the predriver transistor for this
circuit next, even if it tests good.
Check to see that you soldered the wires to the new driver transistor
correctly. They could be reversed.
Check for voltage at the reset coil.
If you have voltage at the coil, look for continuity in the ground
circuit. Look at the connector that feeds this circuit from the
driver board. Be sure there is adequate pressure from the pin to the
board.
You need to check the basics as you get deeper into these issues.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Post by r***@msn.com
Post by Steve Kulpa
... and replace both if one or the other is blown
and yes, a 2N5880 will work just fine under the playfield.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm-Pinballhttp://www.geo...
Post by c***@Team-EM.com
Agree with Mike. The only thing to add is that the underplayfield
transistor is predriven by another transistor on the driver board.
You'll need to test both.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
OK, I've been able to try as you all have suggested.
The fuse tests OK (pulled from the machine and using DMM)
I tested the undermount transistor and it was bad. I've replaced
that, but the kings still aren't popping up. I replaced the coil
because the prior one had the sleeve melt inside. So this is a new
coil.
I've gone through all the the transistors on the driver board, they
all tested OK, I'm going to test again in case I missed something.
When I manually reset the kings, then start a game, if I knock down
all the kings, the system keeps scoring all the kings, as though the
kings switches are being reset then knocked down again.
Any other ideas?
Rich- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BTW, what kind of transistor did you use in place of the 5875?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31www.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I used an NTE219, the local electronics shop told me it was the
replacement. When i pulled the old transistor, it had the markings of
REN219 then under it was 7825. To answer another question, I was
concerned that I might have put the transistor in backwards, since
there are no markings on the bottom of the case. I think it's
installed correctly, I used Clay's testing mechanism and the current
only flows one way.
Now for the second issue. I'm concerned about doing circuit board
repairs. I've not done it before and I know I'm not the best at
soldering. I know the basics, took electronics in high school (many
years ago). I'm thinking of replacing the board(s), I'm trying to
determine if I try each board individually, or if I bite the bullet
and buy Pascal's all in one.
Any thoughts, suggestions?
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