Blackout

[tmcw boards]

Hi,

Got a Blackout as a project recently, looking for some pointers to get
it working 100%. New to pinballs, so just finding my way atm.

The Good:
After switch-on, lights and displays are all functioning correctly, as
I can see. Occasionally, the lights go out, and the machine speaks
"Blackout", which is a good sign. The switch and buttons in the coin
door function as expected; lights, solenoids and flippers work in
diagnostic mode from these switches. I've also tested the power supply
as indicated in one on the online guides, and all voltages are within
limits. Sound board test switch plays the speech sounds normally, but
the regular sounds are very low in volume, but I can hear them.

The Bad:
However, I can't credit-up, the switches are there, and are clean, but
no credits go up (difficult to find info for this aspect of the
machine). Also, as said above, the volume for the sounds are very low,
but volume pots on speech board and in the cabinet seem to be working
ok.

Anyone have any pointers to get me on track? Thanks.

[kbliznick]

Does the game start when you press the start button. Someone may have
set the game to freeplay by changing adjustment #18 (maximum credits)
to zero.

[d***@hotmail.com]

Does the game start when you press the start button. Someone may have
set the game to freeplay by changing adjustment #18 (maximum credits)
to zero.

how to set free play on williams blackout 1982-1983

[John Robertson]

Post by d***@hotmail.com

Does the game start when you press the start button. Someone may have
set the game to freeplay by changing adjustment #18 (maximum credits)
to zero.

how to set free play on williams blackout 1982-1983

Download the operators manual from https://www.ipdb.org (search for
Blackout), the Free Play setting is explained in the operators manual -
possibly under the "Little Book" which should be there too. You need to
use the service switches on the inside of the front cash door.

John :-#)#

[someotherguy]

Post by tmcw boards
Hi,
Got a Blackout as a project recently, looking for some pointers to get
it working 100%. New to pinballs, so just finding my way atm.
After switch-on, lights and displays are all functioning correctly, as
I can see. Occasionally, the lights go out, and the machine speaks
"Blackout", which is a good sign. The switch and buttons in the coin
door function as expected; lights, solenoids and flippers work in
diagnostic mode from these switches. I've also tested the power supply
as indicated in one on the online guides, and all voltages are within
limits. Sound board test switch plays the speech sounds normally, but
the regular sounds are very low in volume, but I can hear them.
However, I can't credit-up, the switches are there, and are clean, but
no credits go up (difficult to find info for this aspect of the
machine). Also, as said above, the volume for the sounds are very low,
but volume pots on speech board and in the cabinet seem to be working
ok.
Anyone have any pointers to get me on track? Thanks.

Sound issue: main volume pot is inside the cabinet, about midway down on the
left wall. Then there's a mix pot on the speech board (small board next to
sound) in the backbox. Adjust this one until you get an even blend between
speech and regular sounds.

Can't credit: like kbliznick said, check that it's not on free play. Although
you can't credit up, it sounds like you can play the game. Are there credits
showing in the display or is it zero? If it's zero and you can start a game,
it's definitely on free play and will not accept credits from the coin switches.
(However, it will add credits if you reach awards in gameplay that are set to
add credits.)

Richard

[firepower]

It's worth mentioning that you can't start a game without a ball in the
outhole (or the proper number of balls for another Williams game). So-
if the outhole switch isn't working as it should then most games won't
start the game (or push the balls onto the ball ramp).

I get this all the time with Firepower questions, where the newbie
hasn't got 3 balls in the game or the ball ramp switches are bad.

The ball handling logic is probably similar for other WMS games.

-Richard

Post by someotherguy
Can't credit: like kbliznick said, check that it's not on free play. Although
you can't credit up, it sounds like you can play the game. Are there credits
showing in the display or is it zero? If it's zero and you can start a game,
it's definitely on free play and will not accept credits from the coin switches.
(However, it will add credits if you reach awards in gameplay that are set to
add credits.)
Richard

[seymour.shabow]

Post by firepower
It's worth mentioning that you can't start a game without a ball in the
outhole (or the proper number of balls for another Williams game). So-
if the outhole switch isn't working as it should then most games won't
start the game (or push the balls onto the ball ramp).
I get this all the time with Firepower questions, where the newbie
hasn't got 3 balls in the game or the ball ramp switches are bad.
The ball handling logic is probably similar for other WMS games.
-Richard

It doesn't. Single ball games do not check the outhole before starting.

-scott CARGPB#29

[firepower]

How does it know the ball isn't stuck in the Blackout eject hole?
That switch could be funky or the coil could be fried. It would be a
real mess to charge someone a credit when the ball could not be served
up. But I do understand *some* single ball games will do this...
depending on programming.

Post by firepower
It's worth mentioning that you can't start a game without a ball in
the outhole (or the proper number of balls for another Williams game).
So- if the outhole switch isn't working as it should then most games
won't start the game (or push the balls onto the ball ramp).
I get this all the time with Firepower questions, where the newbie
hasn't got 3 balls in the game or the ball ramp switches are bad.
The ball handling logic is probably similar for other WMS games.
-Richard

It doesn't. Single ball games do not check the outhole before starting.
-scott CARGPB#29

[tmcw boards]

WOW! Thanks for all the replies.

Game doesn't start from the front button. #18 has a value of 20 which
I understand is a max credit possible of 20.

The switch for game start seems to be ok (on a continuity test). Does
the door need to be closed to allow a game to start?

In the lower display (the one with 2 2-digit numbers), the left one
currently displays 16, the right one displays 00. I noticed that power
cycling seemed to be increasing the left number from 00 to 16, but it
seems not every power cycle incremented the display by 1.

Other observations: The two "Game Over" bulbs constantly flash, and
the next bulb over, "Ball In Play" is constantly lit. Are these
normal?

The cabinet pot does increase/decrease speech and general sounds
(sounds a bit dirty though), but the trimmer on the speech board
doesn't seem to affect the volume of the general sounds; it does
affect speech volume though, and sounds "clean".

No difference whether a ball is in the machine or not. Switch
underneath to detect the ball appears to be working.

One other observation: looks like there was a liquid spill into the
left-hand side at some stage, sticky stuff around coin mech, start
button, door switch, and on the cables, though the cable box-
connection seems clean; unplugged and plugged it a few times to see if
things would change, but no change.

[someotherguy]

Post by tmcw boards
WOW! Thanks for all the replies.
Game doesn't start from the front button. #18 has a value of 20 which
I understand is a max credit possible of 20.
The switch for game start seems to be ok (on a continuity test). Does
the door need to be closed to allow a game to start?

Nope.

Post by tmcw boards
In the lower display (the one with 2 2-digit numbers), the left one
currently displays 16, the right one displays 00. I noticed that power
cycling seemed to be increasing the left number from 00 to 16, but it
seems not every power cycle incremented the display by 1.

Sounds like a coin switch is stuck closed. This could be interfering with the
start button switch and all other switches related to it.

Post by tmcw boards
Other observations: The two "Game Over" bulbs constantly flash, and
the next bulb over, "Ball In Play" is constantly lit. Are these
normal?
The cabinet pot does increase/decrease speech and general sounds
(sounds a bit dirty though), but the trimmer on the speech board
doesn't seem to affect the volume of the general sounds; it does
affect speech volume though, and sounds "clean".

The one on the speech board will not affect the regular sound effects. It's
used to raise/lower the speech volume in relation to the other sounds. Turn the
main volume up inside the cabinet, then adjust the speech to your liking using
the speech board pot.

Post by tmcw boards
No difference whether a ball is in the machine or not. Switch
underneath to detect the ball appears to be working.

Correct, the outhole switch on single ball games is just to detect end of ball,
there is no switch where the ball rests in the trough waiting to be ejected to
the shooter lane.

Post by tmcw boards
One other observation: looks like there was a liquid spill into the
left-hand side at some stage, sticky stuff around coin mech, start
button, door switch, and on the cables, though the cable box-
connection seems clean; unplugged and plugged it a few times to see if
things would change, but no change.

Richard

[firepower]

Post by someotherguy
Correct, the outhole switch on single ball games is just to detect end of ball,
there is no switch where the ball rests in the trough waiting to be ejected to
the shooter lane.

Well, no. The ball sits on the #01 switch in the outhole on a Blackout.
It gets kicked from there right to the shooter lane.
That's why I thought there would be logic to detect the ball was there.

There isn't a "ball trough", and so no ball ramp thrower. That's way
too complicated for a single ball game!

-R

[someotherguy]

Post by firepower

Post by someotherguy
Correct, the outhole switch on single ball games is just to detect end of ball,
there is no switch where the ball rests in the trough waiting to be ejected to
the shooter lane.

Well, no. The ball sits on the #01 switch in the outhole on a Blackout.
It gets kicked from there right to the shooter lane.
That's why I thought there would be logic to detect the ball was there.
There isn't a "ball trough", and so no ball ramp thrower. That's way
too complicated for a single ball game!
-R

So I had a minor brain fart on the setup of a single ball game. When every
remaining game in your collection is a sys6/7 multiball it's easy to forget. : )

All the other advice applies, and as it appears in one of his responses his ball
roll tilt is showing as stuck closed. Same column the start button is on. Huh.

Richard

[firepower]

Post by someotherguy
Correct, the outhole switch on single ball games is just to detect end of ball,
there is no switch where the ball rests in the trough waiting to be ejected to
the shooter lane.

Well, no. The ball sits on the #01 switch in the outhole on a Blackout.
It gets kicked from there right to the shooter lane.
That's why I thought there would be logic to detect the ball was there.

There is no "ball trough", and they didn't need to add a ball ramp
thrower. That's way too complicated for a single ball game!

-R

[tmcw boards]

Getting back to the 3.89V at TP3, do you think it's normal, given the
extra capacitor that's on the board, or should I be looking for
something else that could be causing the voltage to go that low?

[firepower]

Yes, you can check this. Desolder one side of the cap, which takes it
out of the circuit. I would do the ground side (pin 7 of IC24), that
way it's easier to put back. See if the voltage at TP3 goes up beyond 4v+.

Also check continuity from the other side of the cap. lead to the back
(non component side) of the board. I wouldn't mess with that lead, as
it's soldered in a "though hole", and needs to connect to a trace at the
back. But it probably will show continuity, and as I said won't be the
problem with COL 1 of the switch matrix... that's going to be on the
driver board I would think given the symptoms.

On that- with the game on and in attract mode, 2J2 and 2J3 removed, also
remove the solenoid fuse first. Then carefully measure the voltage
directly on legs 2-9 (PA0-PA7) of IC11 (Switch PIA). Leg 2 is Switch
Input (so ROW) #1 and then leg 3 is ROW #2 etc.
Can you see a difference there?

Then measure legs #10-17 (PA0-PA7) of IC11. These are Switch Drives
(COLs). Leg #10 is Col-1 etc. to Leg #17 which is COL-8. Can you see a
difference there?

BTW - The header pins on 2J2 and 2J3 count backwards, so 2J2-9 is Col-1
and 2J3-9 is Row-1. I think I have that right. Header pin -8 is
Row/Col-2 etc. See an assembly drawing driverboard.pdf from the
firepowerpinball.com site I liked to before.

You can also do a test procedure with a LED+resistor+test leads instead
of a DMM. If you have a logic probe, that would probably be even
easier. With the game in attract mode, you should see pulsing on the
Drives (Cols) at 2J2's pins. If you don't, trace back to IC17 pin 2,
and finally IC17 pin1 which is also directly connected to the PIA IC11
pin 10. Chances are that having a pulse at the PIA pin and nothing at
2J2-9 then you replace IC17, a 7406 or 74LS06 will do.

Testing 2J3 is a little harder, but not much. You ground a pin on 2J3
(using a test lead from the ground "braid" between your cab and backbox
is good. "To test input ROW #1, ground pin 9 of 2J3 and then using your
test LED or Logic Probe, look for a pulse at pin 2 of IC10. Then move
the ground to pin 8 of 2J3 and check for a pulse at pin 3 on IC10."
Comparing these two should tell you if the problem is on that side, no
pulse getting to the PIA (probably) points towards IC15 for Rows 1-4 and
for completeness IC16 for Rows 1-8. Modern replacement chip for the
"4049" is the MC14049 or equivalent.

I would remove the solenoid fuse if testing any this "in game"!!!
And be careful with where the test leads touch.

I like moving the MPU / driver board to the bench with a "PC/AT power
supply to get the +5v/Gnd and then following "mark's pinball page" for
troubleshooting. A Leon test ROM will also help as it pulses all the
(working) PIA pins Up/Down - without having to get any game code running
on the bench.

It's very clear and makes sense to me:
http://pinball.flippers.info/system6resources.asp

Regards and apologies in advance for the length of this reply.

-Richard
Firepower (and Blackout) rule!

Post by tmcw boards
Getting back to the 3.89V at TP3, do you think it's normal, given the
extra capacitor that's on the board, or should I be looking for
something else that could be causing the voltage to go that low?

[tmcw boards]

Thanks Richard, your help is much appreciated. To be honest, I don't
mind the length, the more info and stuff I can test the better. I'm
seeing this as a way to learn about machines from this era, and then
be able to maintain it (them?!) for years to come.

And I'm actually printing off the pages from Marks site right now. Had
them saved a few days ago, but they really need to be printed out to
be able to absorb them fully.

I'll give the procedures you gave above a go later tonight, and see
how I get on.

I don't have a logic probe, but have seen them used in some of the
guides, so was thinking of getting one. Are the ones on eBay any use?
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=logic+probe&_sacat=See-All-Categories

I'll put together one of those led/resistor as well, have seen them
used on some repair pages too. And I've seen the Leon ROM used too, so
will get one of those too, I really want to get this machine up and
running, the first time I heard it speak, I nearly shat myself!

Cheers, and thanks again.

[firepower]

You mean when the diag says: Blackout launch mission, condition Red,
Yellow, Green! I always liked that. :)

Nah, skip ePay. The logic probe I have (I live in the UK) was from
Maplin, 15: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=5671 It has two
switches - one selects CMOS/TTL chips, the other switch captures a
single "pulse" or logic level change and then lights an LED to say it
saw something. Are you in the UK? You linked to ebay.co.uk.

For the USA, more like this one: http://www.frys.com/product/5593710
I wouldn't pay more than about $20 for a pin repair one.

Both the LED tester AND a logic probe are useful. The LED is sometimes
more sensitive in some situations, I think Leon's methods explain when
to use the LED. Some prefer it, but you need to observe polarity,
whereas a logic probe can show High ~+5 and Low ~0v levels. If in
doubt, I go for Logic Probe first and then the LED as a double check.

Cheers

-Richard

Post by tmcw boards
Thanks Richard, your help is much appreciated. To be honest, I don't
mind the length, the more info and stuff I can test the better. I'm
seeing this as a way to learn about machines from this era, and then
be able to maintain it (them?!) for years to come.
And I'm actually printing off the pages from Marks site right now. Had
them saved a few days ago, but they really need to be printed out to
be able to absorb them fully.
I'll give the procedures you gave above a go later tonight, and see
how I get on.
I don't have a logic probe, but have seen them used in some of the
guides, so was thinking of getting one. Are the ones on eBay any use?
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=logic+probe&_sacat=See-All-Categories
I'll put together one of those led/resistor as well, have seen them
used on some repair pages too. And I've seen the Leon ROM used too, so
will get one of those too, I really want to get this machine up and
running, the first time I heard it speak, I nearly shat myself!
Cheers, and thanks again.

[tmcw boards]

No, when I first connected the head, I was sitting in the room with
the machine behind me switched on, and I didn't know how loud the
volume was turned up, not expecting it to speak, and it just said
"BLACKOUT!", it just made me jump. Even the dog that was in the room
with me at the time was spooked.

I'm in Dublin, there is a Maplin here, so I might take a trip out
there tomorrow morning. I might be able to borrow a probe from work
though, I'll have a look and see if I can find the person who might be
able to help me with a borrow for the weekend. Other than Maplin, I
don't think we have any other to choose from.

[Hans]

In a pinch, if you don't have a logic probe, you can sometimes get
away with just checking voltage and looking for the 5v or 0v.
Many digital multimeters also have a logic probe function built into
them now as well.

I've noticed on my own games that many of the logic circuits are well
under 5v, such as a 3.6v blanking signal on my Black Knight. Same
with my Firepower. As the games function fine at these levels, I've
never really dug into it further to try and find why the voltages are
lower than spec.

-Hans

[tmcw boards]

Ok, haven't made a test led yet, and couldn't get a logic probe to
borrow, so have only tested driver board IC11 pins 2-17.

2 to 9 were all the same, 0.09v
10 to 13 and 16 were 3.85v
14 and 15 were 1.59v
17 was 1.67v

Just wondering if instead of a logic probe, I could use an
oscilliscope? I have an old HP 54600A, but to be honest, I haven't
taken the time to learn how to use it, and it's probably overkill for
what I need to test.

[firepower]

OK. Pins 2-9 of the PIA at IC11 should read ~0v (gnd) IF you have 2J2
and 2J3 both removed and no pins on 2J3 grounded. That's good, it means
that none of the switch Rows are shorted.

But to complete the ROW test, you need to ground the pins of 2J3 in turn
as you measured the voltage on the PIA. Read my post again, or check
Marks pinball guide about testing the Switch Matrix. BTW - If I ever
said IC10 for the Switch PIA I actually meant IC11.

On the Columns, hmmm...
Best way to check is actually to make your LED + resistor + alligator
clip tester. Then With the game on and in attract mode with 2J2/2J4
removed: put one end of the tester on Ground and touch the other end to
each pin of 2J2. You should get pulsing (a strobe) on each of the pins.
If you get nothing on the LED tester, then reverse the leads to see
pulsing on some pins. A pin that does not pulse points towards a bad IC
further up the chain.

According to the Marvin site, you can then turn off the game and check
the IC with your DMM in diode mode. Taken from the middle of:
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index3.htm#switch

"3g. Testing the Row/Column Chips with a DMM.
The row chips (4049 at IC15/IC16) and column chips (7406 at IC17/IC18)
can be easily checked with the power off using a DMM set to diode test.

With the power off, remove the two switch connectors J2 and J3 from the
driver board (two upper right connectors.) Put the red DMM lead on
ground, probe each of the switch matrix chip legs with black DMM lead.
The chip legs should show .4 to .6 volts on the meter (except for 4049
pins 7,14 and 7406 pins 1,7,12,14). Usually when one of these chips goes
bad, the meter will show a near short like .2 or less, or some value
higher than .8 volts. It's generally pretty obvious, and it happens a
lot on these driver boards. Particularly problematic are the two 7406
colum driver chips at IC17/IC18.

Beyond the row and column chips is the switch matrix PIA at IC11 (6821).
That too can be tested with a meter set to diode function. But a better
method is to use Leon's test chip with an LED probe."

That should point at the correct IC. Just replacing IC17 is probably a
good bet from what I have seen so far... definitely if the above DMM
test points to a bad reading just on pins 1 or 2 of IC17 which is needed
for the Column 1 drive. A 74(LS)06 IC and a socket will only cost a few
dollars (euro) and so it's worth a go.

To my mind if that doesn't get you "up and running", you really need to
get LEONs test ROM with the Driver and MPU on the bench at this point.
That's because it will strobe the PIAs High/Low for you. You really
shouldn't do this "in game", I can't recommended that at all.

Then you just work though Mark's / Marvins (Clay's) guides until you get
the driver board working as it should. Let's hope it's a simple buffer
or inverter IC and not the PIA at IC11 that needs to be replaced. If
the PIAs are socketed, you could (for example) swap the Solenoid anbd
the Switch Matrix PIAs and leave the Solenoid fuse out of the game (F2
on power board) and see if your switch matrix switch errors go away.
Let me know if you have socketed PIAs as that's not factory and means
the driverboard was worked on before.

BTW - Columns 7 & 8 of the switch matrix aren't even used on a Blackout.
Shame the fault is on Column 1 and not one of those! Sod's law.

Logic probe or LED are better than a 'Scope, unless you are looking at a
waveform. Which you aren't in this case.

-Richard

Post by tmcw boards
Ok, haven't made a test led yet, and couldn't get a logic probe to
borrow, so have only tested driver board IC11 pins 2-17.
2 to 9 were all the same, 0.09v
10 to 13 and 16 were 3.85v
14 and 15 were 1.59v
17 was 1.67v
Just wondering if instead of a logic probe, I could use an
oscilliscope? I have an old HP 54600A, but to be honest, I haven't
taken the time to learn how to use it, and it's probably overkill for
what I need to test.

[tmcw boards]

OK, got the logic probe you linked before, and did a bit of testing as
you've suggested.

Didn't get any pulsing on the 2J2 pins. Nor on the IC17. And no
pulsing on pins 2 or 3 on IC11 either (I did see pulsing on the other
side of IC11, pins 22 to 33 approx).

Does this mean IC11 is likely bad? But that IC17 could still be ok?

Checked IC's 15/16/17/18 in diode test. The voltages within each pair
were essentially the same, so I'll only list one for each pair.

4049:
1: 0.258
2: 0.599
3: 0.744
4: 0.628
5: 0.777
6: 0.602
7: 0.776
8: 0.001
9: 0.751
10: 0.603
11: 0.759
12: 0.631
13: overload
14: 0.750
15: 0.605
16: overload

7406:
1: 0.620
2: 0.631
3: 0.780
4: 0.641
5: 0.619
6: 0.629
7: 0.001
8: 0.630
9: 0.617
10: 0.640
11: 0.781
12: 0.631
13: 0.613
14: 0.267

What do you think? I'm a little confused, as the guide says on 4049
that 7 and 14 should be different to the rest, but here I'm seeing
this on the 7406.

PIAs aren't socketed.

Incidently, I had both boards out today, and was checking the 40-pin
connector, and found 5 female connections that were broken in the
hole. 3 were grounds, but 2 were further in. Anyway, I shaped some
pieces of wire to make the connection as a temporary measure, but the
machine seems to be behaving more complete during the blackout in
attract mode. I'm also hearing static after the machine says blackout,
which I presume should be sounds. Does that mean I might need new
sound roms?

[Hans]

Going from what you said, you need two things to even get started.

The 40pin interboard is definitely shot, and needs to be done on the
driver board. If that connection is flaky, it causes havok if there
are problems with it. Though normally it just causes the whole
machine not to boot up at all.

The sound issue is likely not ROM's, but connectors and grounding.
Make sure all the screws are in place to hold the sound board in
place. Does it only make the static noise when the machine is
running? or also during a sound test via the diagnostic button on the
sound board? That would hint at which connectors need to be looked at
(power or data).

-Hans

[tmcw boards]

Thanks Hans.

Yes, I was afraid that that was the case with the 40-pin. There is
continuity between the boards now, but with the rest of the
connections likely on the verge of breaking also, and if the machine
does become playable, I guess vibration will only accelerate the
failure, and lead to more headache. They do seem very brittle at this
stage.

The sound board was held on with only 2 screws when I got it, but I've
filled the rest of the holes with alternative screws. It was buzzing/
staticy before that, but seems to have quietened down now that it has
the max amount of screws in. I have tried it with the speech board
disconnected, and the 2 switches in ALL combinations, but when I try
that, it doesn't make any sound at all, in fact, the background static
I normally hear through the speaker seems to disappear completely.

With the speech board connected, the sound test button pressed, it
makes about 6 or 7 sounds (at very low volume), then plays all the
speech words. The pot in the cabinet is up fully, and I have played
with the pot of the speech board, but still can't get a good balance
between sounds/speech. The pot on speech board is nearly down as low
as it can go, and both sounds and speech are at a similar volume level.

[tmcw boards]

Also, forgot to say that the heat sink on IC 1 a bit loose, not
attached or soldered to the board. It's attached to the IC ok though.

Is this a possible bad spot?

[Hans]

Post by tmcw boards
Also, forgot to say that the heat sink on IC 1 a bit loose, not
attached or soldered to the board. It's attached to the IC ok though.
Is this a possible bad spot?

Well, IC1 is the audio amplifier. But if that was bad, you're likely
going to get no sound at all. Wouldn't hurt to put some fresh heat
paste in there and tighten the heatsink. I'd more suspect the volume
potentiometer though, easy enough to test that..... just jumper pin 1
and 2 on 10J4 and if that should give you full volume. Just be aware,
it can be quite loud. Try spinning it from stop to stop about 10
times, if it's dirty that will clean it up. Dirty connectors at 10J4,
and at 10J2, can also cause volume issues. Make sure that 10J2 is
oriented properly with the red wire to the right of the black, it's
easy to get backward.

Same with the speech/sound balance pot on the sound board. Could
just be dirty, and working it all the way a few times would clean it
up and may solve that problem.

The sound board won't function at all without the speech board
attached, unless you resolder some jumpers, so leave that one
connected the whole time.

With the connectors wedged in on the 40pin, still having the switch
problem at column 1?

-Hans

[someotherguy]

Post by tmcw boards
Incidently, I had both boards out today, and was checking the 40-pin
connector, and found 5 female connections that were broken in the
hole. 3 were grounds, but 2 were further in. Anyway, I shaped some
pieces of wire to make the connection as a temporary measure, but the
machine seems to be behaving more complete during the blackout in
attract mode. I'm also hearing static after the machine says blackout,
which I presume should be sounds. Does that mean I might need new
sound roms?

Don't know if this was addressed in earlier posts, but don't overlook
resoldering ALL the header pins on ALL the boards, plus any other ones that look
like they may have cracked solder joints. This is #1 on the list as most of
these boards that haven't been resoldered, NEED it!

And as the other Richard mentioned, replace that 40 pin interconnect at both
sides - the pins, and the sockets. Yours sounds awful. I've seen funky ones
but never one with broken pins. A good connection here is critical.

Richard

[tmcw boards]

Thanks Richard,

Yes, I'm going to put together a list of items I'll definitely be
needing, and replacing the 40-pin connector will be on that list.
Along with Leon's test rom(s).

I did a little more testing with the sound board today. I disconnected
the speech board, and jumpered W1, and was getting sounds, but the
volume is still low. I don't think it's the cabinet pot, as with the
speech board attached, I can adjust the cabinet pot (in conjunction
with the speech pot), and the speech comes booming out. I did try
moving both from one extreme to the other, and it sounded rough at
first, but sound decreases/increases smoothly now. I'm not 100% that
all sounds are present though. From the videos I've seen of the game,
on a blackout, there is a buzz noise that increases in pitch, then
some "bouncing" noises like explosions (I guess). It doesn't make the
"bouncing" noises, but does the increasing pitch noise (at low
volume).

I also tested the IC9 on the sound board, and pins 1-25 were as per
the repair manual. After that pins 26 and 27 were 0.53v, and 28-32
were 0.37v when they should be 0v. After that, 38 and 39 were 1.4v and
1.1v respectively, when they should be 0.2v, and finally 40 was 5v
when it should be 4v. Are they withing expected limits? Is 0.53v and
0.37v bad when it should be 0v? I'm guessing the high voltages on the
clock signal at 38 and 39 are a bad sign too.

I think most of them were pulsing as expected though.

One other thing to note is that I noticed the wires for the middle
coin door were taped up (no middle coin door installed). They were in
a single wrap of insulation tape, but I took them out and isolated
them singly. Now, I don't know if it's related, but I can now add
credits. Still can't begin a game though. I can credit up on the left
coin, but not the right coin.

On a solenoid test, I also notice that the bottom bumper is not
energising. Is there a way I can force it to energise to see if coil
is good or bad? All other solenoids are energising.

With the boards installed, and tested continuity between the 40-pin
interconnect, I still have the switch problem on column 1.

Finally, still can't move up or down within game adjustment.

[someotherguy]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:05:18 -0700 (PDT), tmcw boards <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

If you haven't resoldered all the headers yet, you're fighting a severely uphill
battle. Same thing with not having replaced the 40 pin connectors since yours
have broken pins. All of your troubleshooting efforts are excessively
complicated by these issues and you are unlikely to have success.

Richard

[firepower]

I have to agree that until the 40-way is replaced and the 40 header pins
on the MPU are reflowed, you are wasting your time troubleshooting on
the game. You will need a beefy soldering iron for some of the ground
tracks on the Driverboard. Say somewhere in 25-40W range. But use more
like 15W for any delicate IC / socket work. A decent one that is
adjustable and has a digital readout is a good investment here.

BTW- I have to go offline and get some work done and may not be in touch
for a bit. But you should be waiting to get some parts as I and some
other guys (quite literally someotherguy) suggested... to replace the
40-way connector and some header pins. Ignore that advice at your
peril. Worst case you could get a game playing and then cause more
damage when vibration causes the MPU and driverboard to "loose touch"
with eachother. Best case you blow a solenoid fuse at F2, worst case
you cause even more damage to the driverboard or worse still the MPU. I
have fixed and given advice on games in a *much* worse state than yours
is now, and believe me you are in a good starting place.

I know you will get lucky soon and crack this and have your game
running, looks to me like you have the aptitude to get there soon. No
feeling like it when you can finally play the game as it was intended.
A lot of work, yes but it's usually worth it.

There are some fairly long answers given below and in context this time,
as you covered a lot of ground. Hope you (and maybe others) find this
of use.

Regards

-Richard

Post by tmcw boards
Thanks Richard,
Yes, I'm going to put together a list of items I'll definitely be
needing, and replacing the 40-pin connector will be on that list.
Along with Leon's test rom(s).
I did a little more testing with the sound board today. I disconnected
the speech board, and jumpered W1, and was getting sounds, but the
volume is still low. I don't think it's the cabinet pot, as with the
speech board attached, I can adjust the cabinet pot (in conjunction
with the speech pot), and the speech comes booming out. I did try
moving both from one extreme to the other, and it sounded rough at
first, but sound decreases/increases smoothly now. I'm not 100% that
all sounds are present though. From the videos I've seen of the game,
on a blackout, there is a buzz noise that increases in pitch, then
some "bouncing" noises like explosions (I guess). It doesn't make the
"bouncing" noises, but does the increasing pitch noise (at low
volume).
I also tested the IC9 on the sound board, and pins 1-25 were as per
the repair manual. After that pins 26 and 27 were 0.53v, and 28-32
were 0.37v when they should be 0v. After that, 38 and 39 were 1.4v and
1.1v respectively, when they should be 0.2v, and finally 40 was 5v
when it should be 4v. Are they withing expected limits? Is 0.53v and
0.37v bad when it should be 0v? I'm guessing the high voltages on the
clock signal at 38 and 39 are a bad sign too.
I think most of them were pulsing as expected though.

You can go ahead and fix the audio board problems, that has it's own PSU
on board. But just test it from the diagnostic switch on the sound
board, and then you can stop it by unplugging 10J1 from upper RH side of
the sound board. I wouldn't trust the sounds you can get from the
game's diagnostic tests until the 40-way is replaced.

IC9 (6808 CPU) must be correct or you wouldn't get the sound board to
run at all. So forget that. It's loading the ROM and playing sounds and
speech. I would say the voltages on the xtal and at the data bus are
OK. You should see something on the databus if the card is running. Why
would it be 0v? Pin 40 (not) reset should be logic high, which is +5v.
Anything 4-5v is a good reading. If you ground that pin briefly, it
should reboot the CPU, which is another way of stopping the sound
board's self test.

You need to concentrate on the DAC / Audio side of the board, which you
told me by removing the speech card and still getting low volume. See:
http://www.firepower.2ya.com/index1.html
and click on the sound/speech card for lots of info most of which you
probably won't need (Including a Leon Test ROM for soundboards) as your
board is running. There is also troubleshooting and diagnostics info in
the Flipper Maint Manual which you can print out for reference.at:
http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/FlipperManual.pdf

To look at the DAC logic, the parts are in the Red dashed box shown in
my schematic here: http://www.firepower.2ya.com/0-checklist.html
You want the Sound board logic diagram. BTW - There are also
driverboard and Sys6 MPU logic diagrams there which I drew and have been
using for reference. For the layout of parts on the sound board see:
http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/SoundBoard.pdf
Where the 2 pages show a slightly different speech board design.

Back to your volume issue:
First check for +12v DC (or so, higher is OK) at TP1 and -12v DC at TP2.
This is unregulated so will vary maybe up to +/-14v.
Next Ov at TP3, which is ground. And +5v regulated at TP4. You can see
this on the PSU part of the sound board schematics.
To fix these voltages, you usually replace capacitors.
You can measure the same voltages at the three caps on the bottom RH
side of the sound card, going up from the Bottom it's:
C27 = +12v
C26 = -12v
C25 = +5v
From memory you measure using black lead to TP3 (gnd) and the read lead
to the LH side of each of the caps.

Actually all the electrolytic caps tend to "dry out" in the 30 years
since they were new. So replacement cap kits sold, a list of parts and
a 6/7 Sound board kit:
http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Category-45.asp

Caps and parts of interest for your problem are C28, C29 and Q2.
Especially C29:
Original = Axial Electrolytic 10uF, 25 Volt
Kit = Axial Electrolytic 10uF, 50 Volt

C28 would rarely fail. 47pFD Maplin part: WX52G 18p
Q2 would rarely fail. Just a 2n4401 transistor. Also a low cost item.
I think Q2 either works or it doesn't.

But replacing C29 and then if that doesn't solve it, Q2 / C28 should
solve the volume problems. If I'm reading the schematics properly.
So you may want to try and buy just those 3 components first, as they
will be very cheap parts and readily available.

Post by tmcw boards
One other thing to note is that I noticed the wires for the middle
coin door were taped up (no middle coin door installed). They were in
a single wrap of insulation tape, but I took them out and isolated
them singly. Now, I don't know if it's related, but I can now add
credits. Still can't begin a game though. I can credit up on the left
coin, but not the right coin.

Glad you found the wires taped together in the middle coin mech slot,
and then got it to credit up. That was the source of your problem and
probably why things in the switch matrix are blown. As you can't credit
on the right coin switch, have a careful look at that. Is the diode
bent over and shorting to the coin door (which is a ground)? Is a diode
there and connecting to a GRN/BRN(COL 1) an WHT/YEL (ROW 5) wire? The
diode should test at ~ 0.7v or so one way and open with the test leads
the other way around. You should also test another diode that works,
say the left coin switch to see what it reads like. Do these diode tests
with the power off.

Post by tmcw boards
On a solenoid test, I also notice that the bottom bumper is not
energising. Is there a way I can force it to energise to see if coil
is good or bad? All other solenoids are energising.

To test the Bottom Pop Bumper, briefly ground the tab of the power
transistor Q6 (which controls Sol 19 - it's the leftmost transistor
above the Flipper relay). Attach a jumper to the ground braid, then
briefly tap the metal tab with the power on, us care not to touch the
tab with your fingers. You may see a spark and the pop should fire. If
it fires, the coil is good and the wiring all the way from the
driverboard to the coil is fine. Also try one near it that works, the
one to the right of it (Q4) is the right Pop Bumper.

The bad news is that if it does fire with the Tab ground test, but not
in game self test then that also happens to trace back to the Switch
Matrix PIA. Or even easier it could be the Transistor(s). But given
the switch matrix faults you have, I would just leave it and it may be
repaired by replacing the switch matrix PIA. It could also work in game
play, and still not fire in self test as the sligshots and Pops on this
era of game are triggered directly by dedicated switches on the
playfield during the game. Meaning that these special solenoids are not
triggered by the Switch Matrix PIA except in test, the CPU doesn't get
involved at all. A switch closes on the playfield and it grounds a
logic pin on the driverboard which fires the solenoid though a pair of
transisors, a little predriver (2n4401) and the bigger power transisor
(like a TIP120 or TIP102, usually). That didn't change until after
System 11, I think when they designed the WPC games.

Post by tmcw boards
With the boards installed, and tested continuity between the 40-pin
interconnect, I still have the switch problem on column 1.

Yep. See below.

Post by tmcw boards
Finally, still can't move up or down within game adjustment.

Not being able to move up and down in game adjust. You can start the
diags, though? If you mean you can't increment or decrement the values
with the switch auto/up manual/down? Well to do that you need to be
able to press the credit button, which I'm guessing is back to the
problems with the switch matrix. Credit is switch #3 in the switch
matrix, so have a careful look at the back of the credit switch and at
the diode. Test it as before on your DMM set to diode mode as you did
for the coin switches with the power off. Test the switch itself on
continuity or OHMs mode- is it normally open/ closed when pressed? A
credit switch stuck closed (or open) will give you the problem you are
getting. Maybe you can find something wrong there, give the diode a
firm tug to see if it falls apart, if so replace the diode on the credit
button with a 1n4001. Observe the band on the diode must face towards
the COL wire (should be GRN/BRN) and away from the usually WHT/??? wire,
probably Orange striped in this case. I'm not looking at a blackout
just now only schematics that should be right.

[tmcw]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. It's much appreciated, and is
helping me find my way around the machine and understand how it's
supposed to be working. Thanks also for the links; the clean
schematics and board layouts are really good to have (are they your
own?).

I fully agree with everyones (and the various guides) view on
replacing the 40-pin connector, and those parts will be on the first
list of things to get. I also noticed some header pins that looked
like they had been re-flowed, so I think it's probably wise to replace
those too at the very least.

Ok, so I had another look at the sound board, and got the following
voltages on the test points:

TP1: 10.8v - is this too low? (not being an electronics expert, I
never really know if it's within limits or "good enough").
TP2: -12.5v - ok
TP3: 0v - ok
TP4: 4.96v - ok

Values at the caps were the same.

Is it possible to measure the voltage coming into the sound board (I
can see the 18.7 vAC coming in on 10J1 from the schematics, but unsure
on how to test these safely; I haven't seen this explained in any of
the repair guides; maybe it's not usually necessary).

If the 10.8v is good enough, then I'll assume it's getting the power
it needs, and get the parts you suggested and replace in the suggested
order.

I checked all the diodes in the general coin door area, and all were
fine. No shorting either. Wiring is correct as from the schematics.
Ultimately, the machine will be on freeplay, so the coin door switches
will be taken out, but I'll leave as is them for now.

Following your instructions, I got the bottom pop bumper to fire,
which was great to see (also helps me understand a bit more about how
to force things to operate, and to also be able to follow and
understand the schematics to force other things if necessary).

I can get into the game adjustment (auto-up + advance), but am then
stuck there, can't use advance to raise or lower from one function to
another (by pressing advance with auto-up or manual-down). Initially I
thought it was because of a bad door switch (door needs to be open to
change game function values), but I did the jumper on 1J3, but it
still doesn't let me move from one function to another. Hopefully
after I change the 40-pin and other header pins, do the diagnostics
with Leon's rom, and then change the PIA (and more as necessary) all
those issues will disappear.

I've tested the coin switches, credit switch and associated diodes,
and they all appear to function correctly, so I'm thinking this all
points back to the switch problem with column 1. The credit switch is
closed when pressed, open when not, so it seems ok.

Finally, while I was in there, I tested the power supply board again
and found all voltages to be good. But I had a look at the C15
capacitor (which I hadn't before). I note from the guides that it
should be 12,000uF, but the one on mine is 22,000 uF (with VL=16,
VI=20). On an ac test, it was showing 27v, so I'm assuming this is bad
and needs to be replaced (going by the guides)? If the voltages off
the headers are spot on, and if the capacitor is bad, what problems
can happen further down the boards as a result? It also has a little
bit of "salt" leakage on one of the ends. So it looks like it's not
stock, but I have no idea when it was put on there. So should I
replace? Just follow the guides on what they suggest to replace it
with, or whats the best replacement part?

[firepower]

OK. Good progress checking things.

The TDA2002 audio amp has a power output (probably about 8W at best on
that setup) which will vary according to the +12v input. It looks
pretty linear to me on the specs. So yes, at 10.8v power will be lower,
but not enough to worry about. Besides you said the speech is loud
enough. So I'll say the voltage is 'good enuf' for now, although
changing the 12v supply filter CAP at C27 would probably be the best
move to raise the +10.8 higher.

I don't think it's your sound board AC supply, as the -12v looks
perfect. BTW- you can measure AC, the the DMM set on AC obviously,
between pins 1 and 9 on 10J1 (outermost pins). But it won't tell you
much and there is no way to change it other than repinning the power
connector / header pins or replacing the Transformer... which you
probably won't need to do.

Coin door / adjustments. The jumper needs to be 1J4 pin 1 to 2 to
"close" the coin door. You said 1J3, maybe that was a typo. If not,
try it again. What I don't get is why advance works to enter diags, and
then doesn't work to change functions... and then yes, we're right back
to the "stuck" credit button, which is tied to the COL 1 problems. At
least we know it's not the credit button now, and looks like a switch
matrix issue on the driverboard.

On C15 and the powerboard... in this case, it's OK to have 12,000 uF at
16v or higher. 20,000-22,000uF at at least 16v is fine. In other
situations you need to cap to be spot on value, only the voltage rating
can be the same, or higher. Your PSU big cap. will work for now and
only supplies the +12v to the reset circuit on the MPU, which is
working. It also filters for the regulator that then supplies the +5v
logic power, but you say those voltages are good too. If the +5v at TP9
on the MPU board is less than 4.2v or so, change the cap. at C15 on the
PSU to see if it helps. Part is 12,000uF to (say) 15,000uF electrolytic
at 16v (16v min up to 25v) usually available at a decent price. I found
this one, which is perfect and cheap:
http://www.rapidonline.com/searchresults.aspx?style=0&kw=HE1C159M30030HA
I have bought some axial caps here that you can't get normally.
Make sure are observe the polarity of an electrolytic cap. when
replacing it. I always mark the + side with a sharpie before removing
the old one.

You can also remove the driverboard completely (remove *all* connectors
off the driverboard and take it right out of the game), remove fuses
F1-F4 (you can pop one side out and leave the other side in the clip so
you know where it goes. Boot the MPU and then measure TP9 again. If the
+5v logic voltage goes back up to a good working voltage without the
driverboard, then all bets are off until you do the 40-way properly and
fix the that fault on the driverboard. A faulty PIA (or another faulty
IC) could "pull down" the +5v until you sort it out.

And yeah, I created many of the PDF schematics: sound board, speech
board and MPU logic diagrams. Started doing System 7 as well. A friend
did loads of work on the firepowerpinball site. All the stuff on
firepower.2ya.com or blackknightpinball are mine. They may not be
perfect, but it makes life easier. BTW- You helped me find a small
mistake on one of the diagrams the other day: If you downloaded the
Sys6/7 sound board logic, the 2n4401 transistor inside the square red
box marked "digital-to-analog converter" should be Q2. I fixed it.

Cheers

-Richard

Post by tmcw
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. It's much appreciated, and is
helping me find my way around the machine and understand how it's
supposed to be working. Thanks also for the links; the clean
schematics and board layouts are really good to have (are they your
own?).
I fully agree with everyones (and the various guides) view on
replacing the 40-pin connector, and those parts will be on the first
list of things to get. I also noticed some header pins that looked
like they had been re-flowed, so I think it's probably wise to replace
those too at the very least.
Ok, so I had another look at the sound board, and got the following
TP1: 10.8v - is this too low? (not being an electronics expert, I
never really know if it's within limits or "good enough").
TP2: -12.5v - ok
TP3: 0v - ok
TP4: 4.96v - ok
Values at the caps were the same.
Is it possible to measure the voltage coming into the sound board (I
can see the 18.7 vAC coming in on 10J1 from the schematics, but unsure
on how to test these safely; I haven't seen this explained in any of
the repair guides; maybe it's not usually necessary).
If the 10.8v is good enough, then I'll assume it's getting the power
it needs, and get the parts you suggested and replace in the suggested
order.
I checked all the diodes in the general coin door area, and all were
fine. No shorting either. Wiring is correct as from the schematics.
Ultimately, the machine will be on freeplay, so the coin door switches
will be taken out, but I'll leave as is them for now.
Following your instructions, I got the bottom pop bumper to fire,
which was great to see (also helps me understand a bit more about how
to force things to operate, and to also be able to follow and
understand the schematics to force other things if necessary).
I can get into the game adjustment (auto-up + advance), but am then
stuck there, can't use advance to raise or lower from one function to
another (by pressing advance with auto-up or manual-down). Initially I
thought it was because of a bad door switch (door needs to be open to
change game function values), but I did the jumper on 1J3, but it
still doesn't let me move from one function to another. Hopefully
after I change the 40-pin and other header pins, do the diagnostics
with Leon's rom, and then change the PIA (and more as necessary) all
those issues will disappear.
I've tested the coin switches, credit switch and associated diodes,
and they all appear to function correctly, so I'm thinking this all
points back to the switch problem with column 1. The credit switch is
closed when pressed, open when not, so it seems ok.
Finally, while I was in there, I tested the power supply board again
and found all voltages to be good. But I had a look at the C15
capacitor (which I hadn't before). I note from the guides that it
should be 12,000uF, but the one on mine is 22,000 uF (with VL=16,
VI=20). On an ac test, it was showing 27v, so I'm assuming this is bad
and needs to be replaced (going by the guides)? If the voltages off
the headers are spot on, and if the capacitor is bad, what problems
can happen further down the boards as a result? It also has a little
bit of "salt" leakage on one of the ends. So it looks like it's not
stock, but I have no idea when it was put on there. So should I
replace? Just follow the guides on what they suggest to replace it
with, or whats the best replacement part?

[Hans]

I've got to say, at this point I'm just stumped on the diagnostic
connector problem. It is possible that the coin door wiring has some
internal breaks to it, it does get a lot of movement from opening and
closing the door. Either way, you need to get into the diagnostics
properly in order to even determine what's really wrong with the
switch matrix.

It should be easy to trip those diagnostic switches with some test
leads right from 1J4 though. The common ground at 1J4 pin 2 (white
wire) goes straight to the chassis ground, so you can just use the
metal framework inside the backbox as a ground or also TP10..... but
TP10's a bit close to the TP9 so I get nervous using that one.

Ground Pin 1 (red/black wire) for a closed interlock, and disconnect
for open.
Ground pin-4 (blue) for "Auto-Up" and disconnect ot for "Manual Down".
Touch pin 3 (green) to ground to advance.

If you've got a 4-pin .156 molex connector and some switches, should
be easy to make a quickie test box too.

-Hans

[tmcw]

Thanks both for the replies and info. Gives me a few more things to
check out this evening.

Yes, it was a typo, meant to say 1J4 - I need to make labels for the
boards and connectors so that I can identify them quicker and
accurately.

I will have another good look at that and trying to get into game
adjustment to alter function values, but I think I carried it out
correctly at least a couple of times before. But just to be absolutely
sure...

Just to be absolutely clear:

* I can get into "Diagnostics Procedures" (Manual-down + Advance) and
move through the lamp, solenoid and switch tests (both automatically
and manually).

* But I can't proceed further into "Game Adjustment Procedure". In
attract mode, I have the switch in Auto-Up and press Advance, and I
get the "1495 1" in player 1 display, "04" and "00" in the master
display, but I then get no response when I press Advance with switch
in Auto-Up or Manual-Down to move up or down through the various
functions.

I note from the Blackout manual that the coin door must be open to
"change" function settings, but should I at least be able to "move"
through the functions even if the door is "closed"?

When in test 4 of the "Diagnostic Procedures", I CAN move through the
functions to see, for example #18 (max credits) has a value of 20, and
#12 (high score) has a value of 600000, but because I'm in "diagnostic
procedures" I can't alter these values.

One thing I failed to mention before was that I don't have any Player
3 or Player 4 displays. Maybe it doesn't matter, maybe it's absolutely
critical, so apologies if it's the latter! I may have averted a lot of
head-scratching and confusion if I'd mentioned this in the first
place.

I had also checked the connections from the block connector just
inside the door, out to the switches on the coin door a few days ago,
and didn't find any issues, but I'll recheck them again later today. I
suspect the issues have all arisen from this area, as I think I
mentioned before, there is evidence of a spill from the playfield
glass left-hand side, down into the cabinet. Maybe shorting in the
middle coin-door wiring casued it. The wiring in that area is a bit
sticky, but since the rest of the wiring isn't exposed, it should be
ok. The block connector doesn't look like it got wet from the spill,
but I'll check continuity from there back to the boards as well, just
to be sure. The start button looks like it got wet in the spill too,
as does the little platform that the high score reset/auto-up/manual-
down/advance switches sit on, but they all function as they should (at
least in continuity) and the diode on the start button is ok. The only
button there I haven't been able to test (other than continuity) is
the high score reset, but I would need to play a game and get a higher
score to be able to test that properly. Some day! :)

Thanks again for all the helpful advice, I appreciate the time
everyone is taking to think about the issues, and suggestions for
things to test. I'm learning a lot here.

[firepower]

I think that the adjustments and switches on the coin door are working
as they should. I was going to describe how to jumper pins at 1J4, which
is what the switches do, but I have decided those buttons are working
from your description. At this point you are chasing your tail. Same
with the voltages at the PSU, but don't get me wrong, replacing
components will get the game more reliable and make all the boards last
longer.

To *change* a value, you don't use advance. You put the game in 04
audit mode, which you can do. You select say "max credits", which is
#18 - it has a value by default of 20. To make it say 21, you set the
"auto/up, manual/down" switch to "up" and press the *credit button*.
To increment it, hold the credit button in until you see the value you
want. If you go to far, or to decrement a value, select "down" on the
bat switch, and then press the *credit* button.

Apologies if I am "teaching granny to suck eggs", always liked that
expression. If you can't increase/decrease the value that way, as I say
were are still in a world of pain with the Credit button - which IS in
COL 1, and is also why you can't start a game (yet, we hope).

You won't need player 3/4 displays at the moment. Remove them by
disconnecting the edge connector(s) for now and leaving the glass in
place. That's a whole other discussion and won't stop you from enjoying
your game, albeit with just two players.

-Richard

Post by tmcw
Thanks both for the replies and info. Gives me a few more things to
check out this evening.
Yes, it was a typo, meant to say 1J4 - I need to make labels for the
boards and connectors so that I can identify them quicker and
accurately.
I will have another good look at that and trying to get into game
adjustment to alter function values, but I think I carried it out
correctly at least a couple of times before. But just to be absolutely
sure...
* I can get into "Diagnostics Procedures" (Manual-down + Advance) and
move through the lamp, solenoid and switch tests (both automatically
and manually).
* But I can't proceed further into "Game Adjustment Procedure". In
attract mode, I have the switch in Auto-Up and press Advance, and I
get the "1495 1" in player 1 display, "04" and "00" in the master
display, but I then get no response when I press Advance with switch
in Auto-Up or Manual-Down to move up or down through the various
functions.
I note from the Blackout manual that the coin door must be open to
"change" function settings, but should I at least be able to "move"
through the functions even if the door is "closed"?
When in test 4 of the "Diagnostic Procedures", I CAN move through the
functions to see, for example #18 (max credits) has a value of 20, and
#12 (high score) has a value of 600000, but because I'm in "diagnostic
procedures" I can't alter these values.
One thing I failed to mention before was that I don't have any Player
3 or Player 4 displays. Maybe it doesn't matter, maybe it's absolutely
critical, so apologies if it's the latter! I may have averted a lot of
head-scratching and confusion if I'd mentioned this in the first
place.
I had also checked the connections from the block connector just
inside the door, out to the switches on the coin door a few days ago,
and didn't find any issues, but I'll recheck them again later today. I
suspect the issues have all arisen from this area, as I think I
mentioned before, there is evidence of a spill from the playfield
glass left-hand side, down into the cabinet. Maybe shorting in the
middle coin-door wiring casued it. The wiring in that area is a bit
sticky, but since the rest of the wiring isn't exposed, it should be
ok. The block connector doesn't look like it got wet from the spill,
but I'll check continuity from there back to the boards as well, just
to be sure. The start button looks like it got wet in the spill too,
as does the little platform that the high score reset/auto-up/manual-
down/advance switches sit on, but they all function as they should (at
least in continuity) and the diode on the start button is ok. The only
button there I haven't been able to test (other than continuity) is
the high score reset, but I would need to play a game and get a higher
score to be able to test that properly. Some day! :)
Thanks again for all the helpful advice, I appreciate the time
everyone is taking to think about the issues, and suggestions for
things to test. I'm learning a lot here.

[Hans]

ahhh, now I understand. Lots of long posts, lots of info, getting
hard to follow at times.

So you can get into the diagnostics, you can get into the audits, but
you can't change the audits/settings with the start button....
correct?
Start button is in column 1. So we're back to that again.

-Hans

[tmcw]

To *change* a value, you don't use advance.  You put the game in 04
audit mode, which you can do.  You select say "max credits", which is
#18 - it has a value by default of 20.  To make it say 21, you set the
"auto/up, manual/down" switch to "up" and press the *credit button*.
To increment it, hold the credit button in until you see the value you
want.  If you go to far, or to decrement a value, select "down" on the
bat switch, and then press the *credit* button.

I think we're not on the same page.

In "game adjustment" (auto-up + advance), I can't go to #18, the
master display always says "04 00". The manual says to increment
function number, from 00 to 01 to 02, etc, to 18, I put the switch in
Auto-Up, and press the advance button to get to #18. In Manual down,
and pressing Advance, it scrolls the other way, 00 to 35 to 34 etc, to
18. This is raising and lowering the function number, according to the
manual. But I can't carry this out.

So I'm not even getting to a value that I can change with the game
start button (like changing max credits value from 20 to 00).

The only way I can "view" the values in the various functions is
through the diagnostics (manual-down + advance).

Sorry if I'm not making sense :) I'm trying!

[Hans]

That's just plain odd.....
Shoot me your address via e-mail, I've got a spare set of the
"Flipper" ROM's for a system 6 I can send you. Worth a shot at least.

-Hans

[tmcw]

Thanks Hans.

Yes, it's very frustrating, when I go into "game adjustment" I tend to
press the advance button a bit harder to try and make it work, but I
know the switch is ok, because it works fine in the diagnostics.

So, you think maybe my roms are bad? The flipper 1 rom looks original,
going by the sticker, the flipper 2 rom looks newer, has a sticker
with handwritten ID on it. My sockets aren't SCANBE, they have RN on
them (SCANBE on the soundboard though). I'll be in touch about your
offer, thanks...

Anyway, I had a little "play" with it this evening, mainly checking
wiring and diodes, and all seems ok. I also did a switch test, from
the diagnostics and just pressing switches, and rows 1-4 are all out,
and rows 5-8 are all ok. So everything in the bottom half of the
switch matrix works, everything in the top half doesn't. Does this
mean a problem is more likely in IC15 or IC16, rather than IC17 or
IC18 (if not the IC11)?

One thing I noticed in the switch diagnostics is that when I activated
a switch, it only indicated the ROW that the switch is in, for
example, when I activated the #2 rollover switch (row 6, col 4), the
"ball in play" display only indicated "6", not "30" as I was
expecting. Is this normal behaviour?

One other thing, the machine still adds a credit when it's powered up.
The left coin is normal (switch and diode ok, and adds a credit when
the switch is activated), the middle coin is disconnected and
isolated, and the right coin is on a row that isn't working. Anyone
have a clue why it might be adding credits based on this?

Anyway, I'm going to shelve the project until I get the parts to
replace the 40-pin interconnector and header pins and Leons rom to
properly test. After that, hopefully we'll be able to figure out what
needs to be done to get it working, and can then think about replacing
caps or whatever to make the machine more reliable. As you said
Richard, I'm probably chasing my tail right now until I get those
connection jobs done.

So, thanks again everyone, and I'll be back again soon. Cheers.

-Cormac

[firepower]

No worries, I got it now. The answer if you are wondering is 42.

I think it's semantics, harder on Usenet and easier to understand in
person. :D

Turn the game off, then on: You should get "attract mode" with the lamp
lightshow on the playfield like a fruit machine.

1. Set AUTO UP from game over and press advance, you should get directly
to "04 00", which I call the audits mode. But then you can't scroll up
by pressing advance after that? Right?

Turn the game off, then on to get attract mode:
2. If you set the to MANUAL DOWN and press advance, do the LEDs blink
twice and you get directly into diagnostics? With the displays blank?

If not, I think you are stuck in AUTO UP, which means 1J4-2 is
permanently connected to 1J4-4 either in the switch/physical wiring or
something is wrong with login ICs on the MPU board (or the ROMs).

OK. If you got to the diags (blank displays), here's what to test. Press
advance again. Do you get all 0's on the working displays? That's what
it should do. Then press advance for all 1's, all 2's etc... that's the
MANUAL display test.

At this point you should be able to swap to an AUTO display test by
switching to AUTO UP. Then the displays should start to scroll
themselves thorough 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-etc.. on all the display
digits... until you press Advance again. Then it moves to the Next
Diag, the Lamp Test (01)... then Advance (still AUTO UP) moves to the
Solenoid Test (02)... then Advance moves to the Switch Test (03)...and
finally Advance moves to Audits/Game Settings Changes (04).

BTW- AUTO/UP is (out), and MANUAL/DOWN is (in) if you have a push switch
rather than a bat switch. If you have a bat switch, then that will
probably make no sense to you.

That's how it works if everything is OK. There's a flow chart of this
on Pg. 17 of the Flipper Maint. Manual (1980 Firep0wer and later).

Let me know where it goes wrong, if you try and follow the steps above.

The cabinet wiring diagram helps explain what the coin door switches are
doing: http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/CabinetWiring.pdf
Using your DMM with the power off and testing at 1J4 on the MPU board:

The cabinet wiring diagram says this:
Pin 4 and pin 2 (Blue to White/GND) are connected together *only* when
you are in AUTO UP. When you are MANUAL DOWN that those pins should
show open.

Pin 3 and pin 2 should be connected together *only* when you momentarily
press Advance, otherwise open when you let go.

Pin 1 and pin 2 should be connected together *only* when the interlock
switch on the coin door is pressed in or the coin door is closed.

At least you can check the above physical stuff with the power off to
see if the problem is physical switch/cabinet wiring related. If not,
from experience it's probably IC5 on the MPU, or you need the LEON test
ROM with a logic probe. You would to check the PIA IC18 on the MPU,
especially that pins 19 & 40 are "dancing" as Leon calls it, with the
test ROM running. Those are the PIA pins that "read" the switch inputs
from AUTO/MANUAL(19) and ADVANCE(40).

It can also tell you reliably if all the PIAs on the driverboard are
good, but only once you have replaced the 40-way.

I read your last post too late while I was writing this, but I'll try

Post by tmcw
Anyway, I had a little "play" with it this evening, mainly checking
wiring and diodes, and all seems ok. I also did a switch test, from
the diagnostics and just pressing switches, and rows 1-4 are all out,
and rows 5-8 are all ok. So everything in the bottom half of the
switch matrix works, everything in the top half doesn't. Does this
mean a problem is more likely in IC15 or IC16, rather than IC17 or
IC18 (if not the IC11)?

Well, yes. In a way.
Rows 1-4 out point to IC15 being faulty, rows 5-9 are inputs to IC16.
IC17/18 are the Column drive ICs.
I would replace IC15 in a heartbeat before replacing the PIA at IC11.
But I wouldn't replace anything without that 40-way first, and then run
the Leon Test ROM to confirm that the PIA at IC11 is good.

Post by tmcw
One thing I noticed in the switch diagnostics is that when I activated
a switch, it only indicated the ROW that the switch is in, for
example, when I activated the #2 rollover switch (row 6, col 4), the
"ball in play" display only indicated "6", not "30" as I was
expecting. Is this normal behaviour?

No. The switch numbers should be displayed, like 30 as you said. Or 09
for a ball in the outhole on your game. I don't for sure know why you
get those numbers! But a good reason is you have a shorted switch
matrix which causes it to see the wrong closure, it can only "see" the
switch matrix as far as col 1?

Same reason as why you get a credit added each time you boot. This will
stop once the switch matrix is fixed. Another closed switch on the
playfield (a drop target?) is being registered as the coin slot in Col
1. The audits at 01-03 would tell you which coin slot is incrementing a
credit, as it is designed to measure game earnings.
Probably the right coin (03), as you say that's "on a row that shows as
faulty".

Lastly the RN sockets are usually good if the board is clean (without
corrosion). Scanbe's will need to be replaced no matter what, except if
you don't need an IC or ROM chip in them for your game to function.

-Richard

[tmcw]

No worries, I got it now.  The answer if you are wondering is 42.
I think it's semantics,  harder on Usenet and easier to understand in
person. :D

Agreed, but from your reply, we're all on the same page now.

Turn the game off, then on:  You should get "attract mode" with the lamp
lightshow on the playfield like a fruit machine.
1. Set AUTO UP from game over and press advance, you should get directly
to "04 00", which I call the audits mode.  But then you can't scroll up
by pressing advance after that?  Right?

Correct. And can't scroll down with Manual-Down + Advance.

2. If you set the to MANUAL DOWN and press advance, do the LEDs blink
twice and you get directly into diagnostics?  With the displays blank?

Yes, that's what I get.

OK. If you got to the diags (blank displays), here's what to test. Press
advance again.  Do you get all 0's on the working displays?  That's what
it should do.  Then press advance for all 1's, all 2's etc... that's the
MANUAL display test.

Yes, I can do all that.

At this point you should be able to swap to an AUTO display test by
switching to AUTO UP. Then the displays should start to scroll
themselves thorough 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-etc.. on all the display
digits... until you press Advance again.  Then it moves to the Next
Diag, the Lamp Test (01)... then Advance (still AUTO UP) moves to the
Solenoid Test (02)... then Advance moves to the Switch Test (03)...and
finally Advance moves to Audits/Game Settings Changes (04).

Yes, I can do this too. But when in (04), I can move up and down
((Auto-Up or Manual-Down) + Advance), view the settings (like max
credits, high score, etc), but can't change values. I was under the
impression that changes can only be done after Auto-up + Advance from
attract. Can it (normally) be done here too?

BTW- AUTO/UP is (out), and MANUAL/DOWN is (in) if you have a push switch
rather than a bat switch.  If you have a bat switch, then that will
probably make no sense to you.

Have a bat switch there.

That's how it works if everything is OK.  There's a flow chart of this
on Pg. 17 of the Flipper Maint. Manual (1980 Firep0wer and later).
Let me know where it goes wrong, if you try and follow the steps above.
The cabinet wiring diagram helps explain what the coin door switches are
doing:http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/CabinetWiring.pdf
Pin 4 and pin 2 (Blue to White/GND) are connected together  *only* when
you are in AUTO UP.  When you are MANUAL DOWN that those pins should
show open.
Pin 3 and pin 2 should be connected together *only* when you momentarily
press Advance, otherwise open when you let go.
Pin 1 and pin 2 should be connected together *only* when the interlock
switch on the coin door is pressed in or the coin door is closed.
At least you can check the above physical stuff with the power off to
see if the problem is physical switch/cabinet wiring related.  If not,
from experience it's probably IC5 on the MPU, or you need the LEON test
ROM with a logic probe.  You would to check the PIA IC18 on the MPU,
especially that pins 19 & 40 are "dancing" as Leon calls it, with the
test ROM running.  Those are the PIA pins that "read" the switch inputs
from AUTO/MANUAL(19) and ADVANCE(40).

I've ordered Leons test ROM, and have a logic probe now, so looking
forward to doing this test.

It can also tell you reliably if all the PIAs on the driverboard are
good, but only once you have replaced the 40-way.
I read your last post too late while I was writing this, but I'll try
 > Anyway, I had a little "play" with it this evening, mainly checking
 > wiring and diodes, and all seems ok. I also did a switch test, from
 > the diagnostics and just pressing switches, and rows 1-4 are all out,
 > and rows 5-8 are all ok. So everything in the bottom half of the
 > switch matrix works, everything in the top half doesn't. Does this
 > mean a problem is more likely in IC15 or IC16, rather than IC17 or
 > IC18 (if not the IC11)?
Well, yes.  In a way.
Rows 1-4 out point to IC15 being faulty, rows 5-9 are inputs to IC16.
IC17/18 are the Column drive ICs.
I would replace IC15 in a heartbeat before replacing the PIA at IC11.
But I wouldn't replace anything without that 40-way first, and then run
the Leon Test ROM to confirm that the PIA at IC11 is good.
 > One thing I noticed in the switch diagnostics is that when I activated
 > a switch, it only indicated the ROW that the switch is in, for
 > example, when I activated the #2 rollover switch (row 6, col 4), the
 > "ball in play" display only indicated "6", not "30" as I was
 > expecting. Is this normal behaviour?
 >
No. The switch numbers should be displayed, like 30 as you said. Or 09
for a ball in the outhole on your game.  I don't for sure know why you
get those numbers!  But a good reason is you have a shorted switch
matrix which causes it to see the wrong closure, it can only "see" the
switch matrix as far as col 1?

At the risk of sounding like a complete noob (which I am!), what does
it mean when you say "a shorted switch matrix"? Do you mean that one
of the IC's has failed inside, and is this something that may or may
not be physically visible by looking at the chip? If yes, in your
experience, when the chips on these boards fail, would you expect to
see some physical indication that an IC has failed?

Same reason as why you get a credit added each time you boot.  This will
stop once the switch matrix is fixed.  Another closed switch on the
playfield (a drop target?) is being registered as the coin slot in Col
1.  The audits at 01-03 would tell you which coin slot is incrementing a
credit, as it is designed to measure game earnings.
Probably the right coin (03), as you say that's "on a row that shows as
faulty".
Lastly the RN sockets are usually good if the board is clean (without
corrosion).  Scanbe's will need to be replaced no matter what, except if
you don't need an IC or ROM chip in them for your game to function.
-Richard

[tmcw]

I did a bit of browsing and saw this pic of a blown IC (http://
www.pinrepair.com/sys37/chipblow.jpg), but I'm guessing that a blown
chip won't always be physically visible. I haven't seen any chip on my
boards that look like the one in the pic, but I realise that's not to
say some of them may be blown.

[firepower]

Right, that's a really extreme example in the Solenoid driver logic, you
can see what looks like a shorted and cooked 2n4401 transistor just to
the left in that picture.

In other cases IC chips fail and you can't tell externally. Although I
swear I once met a repair guy that would smell chips on the boards, and
claimed to be able to guess the faulty one. Also I have learned that
sometimes a faulty logic chip will run way too hot to the touch,
compared to others, so that's worth a try. CPUs are almost always hot
to the touch.

I think you missed that you could do all the tests the switches on the
coin door out to the CPU connector with the power off, and you DMM set
on continuity. If you have a "beep function" (on 0 Ohms) or sometimes
part of the diode test, then you can push the testor leads into the
connector with the cap removed and listen for the beep. The black lead
can be connected to any convenient ground braid, and ground should show
continuity to to 1J4 pin 2 at all times. Listen for that "beep" or get
0 Ohms there first- before starting the other tests (pins 1,3,4). Get
all these switches wired and working as they should now, including the
coin door interlock.

You don't need a test ROM to test the coin door switches, you don't even
turn the game on. If the above tests are good, which I think they will
be from your descriptions... then I'm starting to think it's something
else anyway. Changing the Flipper/Game ROMs for known good ones is a
good trouble shooting step at this point.

-Richard

Post by tmcw
I did a bit of browsing and saw this pic of a blown IC (http://
www.pinrepair.com/sys37/chipblow.jpg), but I'm guessing that a blown
chip won't always be physically visible. I haven't seen any chip on my
boards that look like the one in the pic, but I realise that's not to
say some of them may be blown.

[tmcw]

Another quick question, regarding changing IC's.

Is it a good, or bad idea, if replacing a chip that's soldered
directly to the board, to remove the chip, add a socket, then add the
chip this way to the socket, or is that not done, or does it depend on
the type/size of the chip?

[Hans]

Post by tmcw
Another quick question, regarding changing IC's.
Is it a good, or bad idea, if replacing a chip that's soldered
directly to the board, to remove the chip, add a socket, then add the
chip this way to the socket, or is that not done, or does it depend on
the type/size of the chip?

The general recommendation is to always socket if possible, but don't
cheap out on the sockets.
Particularly for chips with higher failure rates like the 6821 PIA's.

-Hans

[tmcw]

Cheers, so any chip replaced, put a socket in it first. Any
recommendations on what type of sockets to use? I've seen types that
are the same size as the original socket or chip, and then there are
what seem to be strips, that are cut to size. Any manufacturer to
prefer, and to avoid (besides SCANBE)?

I was reading an article on a Firepower repair (pinballninja, IIRC),
and noticed that on the board he was working on, there were both RN
and SCANBE sockets on the mpu board, so I reckon I need to pull off
the chips, and double-check what type of socket are used for the
flipper and game roms on mine. Pinrepair actually says that the RN are
better than the SCANBE, but maybe better to change them anyway given
the age, and if I'm replacing connections and sockets anyway, may as
well do these too, even if they are RN.

Something else I read related to rom sizes and board jumpers, so I
should probably go back and understand and check that also, given that
the flipper 2 eprom looks like it isn't original. Maybe unnecessary,
but I want to understand the machine more.

I checked ALL wiring and diodes from the playfield to the driver board
yesterday, and am satisfied that everything is sound, including the
coin door switch. It's only when you really begin to look at and
understand the machine, that you realise how much the machine has been
worked on in the past, and being more aware of any changes or
deviations. I could see where some work was done on the eject hole
coil, and noticed that the playfield tilt switch has been removed, in
addition to the middle coin wiring that was wrapped up together, and
in conjunction with the spill, may have been the reason the machine
has issues. I also noticed that the 3 28v red wires off the powerboard
were broken a couple of cms from the connector, and all combined
together, and wrapped in insulation tape, I suspect to "repair" a
header pin issue, perhaps?

[someotherguy]

Post by tmcw
Cheers, so any chip replaced, put a socket in it first. Any
recommendations on what type of sockets to use? I've seen types that
are the same size as the original socket or chip, and then there are
what seem to be strips, that are cut to size. Any manufacturer to
prefer, and to avoid (besides SCANBE)?
I was reading an article on a Firepower repair (pinballninja, IIRC),
and noticed that on the board he was working on, there were both RN
and SCANBE sockets on the mpu board, so I reckon I need to pull off
the chips, and double-check what type of socket are used for the
flipper and game roms on mine. Pinrepair actually says that the RN are
better than the SCANBE, but maybe better to change them anyway given
the age, and if I'm replacing connections and sockets anyway, may as
well do these too, even if they are RN.
Something else I read related to rom sizes and board jumpers, so I
should probably go back and understand and check that also, given that
the flipper 2 eprom looks like it isn't original. Maybe unnecessary,
but I want to understand the machine more.
I checked ALL wiring and diodes from the playfield to the driver board
yesterday, and am satisfied that everything is sound, including the
coin door switch. It's only when you really begin to look at and
understand the machine, that you realise how much the machine has been
worked on in the past, and being more aware of any changes or
deviations. I could see where some work was done on the eject hole
coil, and noticed that the playfield tilt switch has been removed, in
addition to the middle coin wiring that was wrapped up together, and
in conjunction with the spill, may have been the reason the machine
has issues. I also noticed that the 3 28v red wires off the powerboard
were broken a couple of cms from the connector, and all combined
together, and wrapped in insulation tape, I suspect to "repair" a
header pin issue, perhaps?

You definitely want to replace all the SCANBE's, but unless troubleshooting
points to problems with the other style, I'd leave them alone. The more you
work the board the more opportunity for damaging the traces/thruholes.

Personally I prefer the strip-style machine pin sockets; I get the 40 pin
version and break them in half for PIA's, CPU's, etc. and of course smaller for
other things. Solves the problem of having to find that odd spacing for things
like the CMOS RAM, too. They solder in easily, they can be any number of pins
you need, and they make good contact. Some will argue that they don't make any
better contact than a regular style socket...but I suppose it would take an
engineer to debate the subject and I ain't one so I won't go there. : )

Bums me out that Ed @ GPE seems to have been out of stock for the 40 pin strips
for a while. I always prefer buying from him for the best service. If you just
need a pile of sockets for this one project, he has the full range of regular
machine pin sockets ready to go.

Richard

[tmcw]

Thanks for that, I'll leave the RNs for now then, I had a look under
the flipper and game roms, and they're RN too.

I'll have a look for the strip-style, probably won't be able to get
them locally though. Hopefully I won't have too many to replace, so
will go for regular sockets.

I had a look under the flipper 2 rom, and it has the following
markings:
MA 5A9234
027A021K
160127 8011

Is this rom the correct type? I haven't seen it listed in any of the
manuals or guides, and it doesn't show up on google.

[firepower]

Sounds like a Williams number 5A-9xxx for a masked ROM. If it doesn't
have a window, replace it with an Eprom. You need the 2 green flippper
ROMs burnt to 2716 EProms, and the Blackout Game ROm on the same type.

If the chips already have windows, then they may be OK or can be
reprogrammed. Same for Sound ROMs. Main sound ROM is also 2716 and
speech ROMs are 3 x 2532. But those won't be the source of game problems
you are having.

Cheers

-Richard

Post by tmcw
Thanks for that, I'll leave the RNs for now then, I had a look under
the flipper and game roms, and they're RN too.
I'll have a look for the strip-style, probably won't be able to get
them locally though. Hopefully I won't have too many to replace, so
will go for regular sockets.
I had a look under the flipper 2 rom, and it has the following
MA 5A9234
027A021K
160127 8011
Is this rom the correct type? I haven't seen it listed in any of the
manuals or guides, and it doesn't show up on google.

[tmcw]

No, Flipper 2 rom doesn't have a window.

Flipper 1 rom and game rom look original, as do all the sound and
speech roms (going by pics of stickers I've seen in the guides).

I realise that they won't be the source of the problems I'm having,
but could bad roms be the reason I'm having problems with getting into
"game adjustment" and not being able to move through the functions?

Looking at eeprom programmers now, I can see ones on eBay for from
about £30-£50 to upwards of a couple hundred £. Would one in the £30-
£50 range do for my needs? I will do my research, but would be happy
to hear any useful pointers.

[firepower]

Yes the Flipper and Game ROMs might be a problem. IIRC, the original
masked ROMs are flatter than the ones with a window. The legs get
tarnished black after 30 years and stop making contact. So I usually
replace any ROM without a window. One exception might be the speech
board, sometimes if they work I leave them as is. Worth a try
replacing them all, anyway it keeps you from having issues later on.

Hard to find a modern Eprom programmer that does the 2532 speech ROM
chips. Make sure it can read+write (not just check) 2716 2732 and 2532
Eproms. My advice: It's easier to get someone to burn them for you and
just pay them for the ROMs and something for their time. For the number
of times you would use it, you won't need a programmer.

-Richard

Post by tmcw
No, Flipper 2 rom doesn't have a window.
Flipper 1 rom and game rom look original, as do all the sound and
speech roms (going by pics of stickers I've seen in the guides).
I realise that they won't be the source of the problems I'm having,
but could bad roms be the reason I'm having problems with getting into
"game adjustment" and not being able to move through the functions?
Looking at eeprom programmers now, I can see ones on eBay for from
about £30-£50 to upwards of a couple hundred £. Would one in the £30-
£50 range do for my needs? I will do my research, but would be happy
to hear any useful pointers.

[tmcw]

Ok, I replaced the 40-pin interconnector over the weekend (whew!). I
held off doing any of the other connectors just yet, as I figured they
wouldn't affect the testing with Leons rom on the bench.

I got the same results as before, outputs on IC5 and IC10 are ok, but
no strobing from the outputs on IC11. On IC11, pins 2-9 were stuck
high when grounded, low when not grounded. The pins 10-17, a few
looked like they were pulsing with the LED, but when probed with the
logic probe, high and strobe leds were flashing, but not the low, like
I would normally see with a good output (is this something to do with
the extra sensitivity I've read about the LED over logic probe?).
Others seemed to have no signal, either high or low. This probably
isn't important though, and I assume it's safe to say the IC11 needs
to be replaced?

Now, the guide wasn't explicit, but am I correct in thinking that if
IC11 is broken, then I can't check IC's 15/16/17/18 until I replace
IC11?

If this is the case, should I get replacements for these as well while
I'm getting the IC11? What I mean is, if IC11 is broken, what are the
chances any/all of IC's 15/16/17/18 are broken as well? Is there a
good chance they are if the outputs on IC11 are showing bad? Is it
likely that the damage came in through 2J2 and/or 2J3? Would the fact
that I'm seeing rows 1-4 out and 5-8 ok on switch test possibly imply
one pair of 15/16 or 17/18 are ok, and one are bad? Or am I getting
ahead of myself?

Finally, is there a one-stop shop that I can get all this stuff from?

[firepower]

First off, you *must* connect blanking to +5 to do the driver board
tests. Do this by connecting +5 volts to pin 37 of the MPU board
(actually the pin will be sticking out of the connector on the driver
board). Fourth pin from the left of the 40-way. If you are using a
System 6 MPU, you can connect pin 37 to test point 9 on the MPU board
for the +5 volts. BTW- You should hear the flipper relay click in time
with the pulsing, otherwise the results may not be accurate!

SYS 4-7 SW ROW TEST
Start with testing switch inputs on the PIA IC11 pins 2-9 . With the
pins at 2J3 grounded, you should see hi/lo at the PIA pins 2-9 with your
logic probe.

Ground 2J3-9 to check IC11 pin 2. (row 1)
Ground 2J3-8 to check IC11 pin 3. (row 2)
etc...
Ground 2J3-3 to check IC11 pin 8. (row 7)
No connnect 2J3-2
Ground 2J3-1 to check IC11 pin 9. (row 8)

If you don't get a high/low as above with the logic probe, likely that
you need to replace the PIA.

If the PIA pins are stuck high with 2J3 grounded, and low when not...
that implys to me that ICs 15/16 are both good as the signal is being
inverted correctly. But if you see good results on Rows 1-4 and only
5-8 are stuck, then I'd replace IC16 first and check again before
changing out the PIA.

For completeness, I list the Switch column test:

SYS 4-7 SW COL TEST
The pins at 2J2 should strobe high/low. You can use you logic probe and
check PIA IC11 pins 10-17 directly. No grounding is needed.
2J2-9 is IC11 pin 10. (col 1)
2J2-8 is IC11 pin 11. (col 2)
etc...
2J2-5 is IC11 pin 14. (col 5)
No connnect 2J3-4
2J2-3 is IC11 pin 15. (col 6)
2J2-2 is IC11 pin 16. (col 7)
2J2-1 is IC11 pin 17. (col 8)

Then check for the same signal at the 2J2 connector
Missing signal at 1J2 on cols 1-4 points to IC17 bad
Missing signal at 1J2 on cols 5-8 points to IC18 bad

If just one pin on the PIA doesn't pulse, as I said before connect it to
one next door that does. If both pins get stuck, then look for a fault
at the 7406 chip (IC 17/18) or a short somewhere between the PIA and the
2J2 connector. If both pins go hi/low when connected together, the PIA
is bad.

The 7406 (or 74LS06, both 14 pins) and the 14049 (or 4049, both 16 pins)
are cheap and easy to find from a general electronics supply, so yeah,
buy 2 of each get machine pin sockets to fit the chips too. As I said
above, I'd be inclined to change out IC16 before the PIA (40 pins).

Do a google search of RGP for 6821, and you should find some sources to
contact. You can use the 68B21 too, and a few other compatible chips.
I found all the chips listed at http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/

Regards

-Richard

Post by tmcw
Ok, I replaced the 40-pin interconnector over the weekend (whew!). I
held off doing any of the other connectors just yet, as I figured they
wouldn't affect the testing with Leons rom on the bench.
I got the same results as before, outputs on IC5 and IC10 are ok, but
no strobing from the outputs on IC11. On IC11, pins 2-9 were stuck
high when grounded, low when not grounded. The pins 10-17, a few
looked like they were pulsing with the LED, but when probed with the
logic probe, high and strobe leds were flashing, but not the low, like
I would normally see with a good output (is this something to do with
the extra sensitivity I've read about the LED over logic probe?).
Others seemed to have no signal, either high or low. This probably
isn't important though, and I assume it's safe to say the IC11 needs
to be replaced?
Now, the guide wasn't explicit, but am I correct in thinking that if
IC11 is broken, then I can't check IC's 15/16/17/18 until I replace
IC11?
If this is the case, should I get replacements for these as well while
I'm getting the IC11? What I mean is, if IC11 is broken, what are the
chances any/all of IC's 15/16/17/18 are broken as well? Is there a
good chance they are if the outputs on IC11 are showing bad? Is it
likely that the damage came in through 2J2 and/or 2J3? Would the fact
that I'm seeing rows 1-4 out and 5-8 ok on switch test possibly imply
one pair of 15/16 or 17/18 are ok, and one are bad? Or am I getting
ahead of myself?
Finally, is there a one-stop shop that I can get all this stuff from?

[Chad H]

A warning to anyone using the Leon Test ROM in a System 6... if you
(or the person who burned a copy of it) got the ROM image from Clay's
site then it is probably corrupt.

Search these message bases for a threaded titled "TECH: Leon's Test
ROM in a System 6 Blackout" for more details.

[firepower]

Today I downloaded the file will367ver3.zip from Leon's site and
extracted his ROM the file L6LED.716
I also downloaded from Clay's site the ROM file
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/roms/sys6tst.716

The two 2716 Eprom source files "bit compare" as identical. So as long
as the files are downloaded from now, and burnt to ROM correctly they
would both work the same.

C:\temp>dir
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is 7451-162C

Directory of C:\temp

27/09/2010 14:32 <DIR> .
27/09/2010 14:32 <DIR> ..
27/09/2010 14:25 2,048 L6LED.716
27/09/2010 14:29 2,048 sys6tst.716
2 File(s) 4,096 bytes
2 Dir(s) 213,670,068,224 bytes free

C:\temp>fc /b L6LED.716 sys6tst.716
Comparing files L6LED.716 and SYS6TST.716
FC: no differences encountered

Regards

-Richard

Post by Chad H
A warning to anyone using the Leon Test ROM in a System 6... if you
(or the person who burned a copy of it) got the ROM image from Clay's
site then it is probably corrupt.
Search these message bases for a threaded titled "TECH: Leon's Test
ROM in a System 6 Blackout" for more details.

[someotherguy]

Post by firepower
Do a google search of RGP for 6821, and you should find some sources to
contact. You can use the 68B21 too, and a few other compatible chips.
I found all the chips listed at http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/

Plug for Mark: http://www.arcadechips.com/product_info.php?products_id=145
Plus lots of other applicable chips...including rare-ish stuff like UDN7180A's.

Richard

[tmcw]

Back again...

Yep, I'd read about the blanking signal, and had that connected while
doing the tests. I couldn't get the outputs on IC11 to strobe, so it
looks like it's bad and will have to be replaced. I've ordered some
chips and sockets for that area of the board, so will be able to
tackle that job in a week or 2. Thanks to both Richards for the links
to getting the relevant chips.

One thing about the IC's at 17 and 18; mine are labelled as 7416; is
the 7406 the equivalent?

Also, I received alternate flipper roms today (thanks Hans, that was
quick!), but the machine behaves the same as with the roms that were
in it when I got it, specifically, after "Auto-Up + Advance", I get
into game adjustment, but the advance button doesn't increment the
function #.

Now, I went back to read the flipper manual, and it implies that you
can do game adjustment after "Manual-down + Advance" and skipping out
to test #4, where I CAN increment function #. I just can't change the
function values because my "game start" button doesn't work (getting
back to the switch matrix).

I just find it odd that I can't increment function # in the first
instance. Hopefully it won't be an issue when the switch matrix is
sorted, and I can set the game into freeplay that second way.

Also, getting back to the sound issue (low general sounds), I replaced
C29 (no change) and C28 (no change). I had a look at the balance pot
on the speech board, and it functions correctly (high to 0 resistance
on one side, 0 to high resistance on the other), so the problem isn't
there. Anything else I can try? The repair guides don't give
troubleshooting advice for sounds that are low in volume. I haven't
replaced Q2; as you said Richard, it either works or it doesn't; is
there any way I can test it in place?

[firepower]

Post by tmcw
Back again...
Yep, I'd read about the blanking signal, and had that connected while
doing the tests. I couldn't get the outputs on IC11 to strobe, so it
looks like it's bad and will have to be replaced. I've ordered some
chips and sockets for that area of the board, so will be able to
tackle that job in a week or 2. Thanks to both Richards for the links
to getting the relevant chips.
One thing about the IC's at 17 and 18; mine are labelled as 7416; is
the 7406 the equivalent?

7406 or 74LS06 are the right part. I think the 7416 has a lower
absolute max output voltage, but both will work in this switch matrix.
Just make sure you order the DIP package:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_in-line_package

You can try cutting IC16 out of the circuit (don't try to save that
chip, the board is worth way more). Then see if the PIA tests still
fail. Less work if you find out the PIA is good. Then replace the PIA
and put in a new IC16.

Post by tmcw
Also, I received alternate flipper roms today (thanks Hans, that was
quick!), but the machine behaves the same as with the roms that were
in it when I got it, specifically, after "Auto-Up + Advance", I get
into game adjustment, but the advance button doesn't increment the
function #.
Now, I went back to read the flipper manual, and it implies that you
can do game adjustment after "Manual-down + Advance" and skipping out
to test #4, where I CAN increment function #. I just can't change the
function values because my "game start" button doesn't work (getting
back to the switch matrix).
I just find it odd that I can't increment function # in the first
instance. Hopefully it won't be an issue when the switch matrix is
sorted, and I can set the game into freeplay that second way.

No idea. Really strange.

Post by tmcw
Also, getting back to the sound issue (low general sounds), I replaced
C29 (no change) and C28 (no change). I had a look at the balance pot
on the speech board, and it functions correctly (high to 0 resistance
on one side, 0 to high resistance on the other), so the problem isn't
there. Anything else I can try? The repair guides don't give
troubleshooting advice for sounds that are low in volume. I haven't
replaced Q2; as you said Richard, it either works or it doesn't; is
there any way I can test it in place?

No, you would just replace it. It's a 25 cent part, less in bulk.

-Richard

[tmcw]

Post by firepower
You can try cutting IC16 out of the circuit (don't try to save that
chip, the board is worth way more).  Then see if the PIA tests still
fail.  Less work if you find out the PIA is good.  Then replace the PIA
and put in a new IC16.

Are you saying that if I remove IC16 from the board, the outputs on
IC11 should strobe, provided IC11 is good in the first place? I don't
need to do anything else, just remove the IC16 and test as before? I
assume I still need to supply the blanking signal, but what about the
grounding of the pins on 2J3, are they now out of the circuit when
IC16 is removed?

Is this just for the row test on 2J3, specifically pins 6-9 on IC11,
when I remove IC16?

[firepower]

Hi

All your assumptions are correct.

-Richard

Post by tmcw

Post by firepower
You can try cutting IC16 out of the circuit (don't try to save that
chip, the board is worth way more). Then see if the PIA tests still
fail. Less work if you find out the PIA is good. Then replace the PIA
and put in a new IC16.

Are you saying that if I remove IC16 from the board, the outputs on
IC11 should strobe, provided IC11 is good in the first place?

Yes (pins 6-9 should strobe).

Post by tmcw
I don't need to do anything else, just remove the IC16 and test as before?

Yes

Post by tmcw
I assume I still need to supply the blanking signal, but what about the
grounding of the pins on 2J3, are they now out of the circuit when
IC16 is removed?

Yes, no connection exists from IC11 (pins 6-9) to 2J3-1 through 2J3-5
with IC16 removed.

Post by tmcw
Is this just for the row test on 2J3, specifically pins 6-9 on IC11,
when I remove IC16?

Yes. Isn't that the area you suspect as being faulty?

[tmcw]

Cheers for that, had a look under the flipper and game roms, and
they're RN as well, so I'll leave them for now.

Unlikely I could get the strip-style locally, so will see what's the
best I can get locally when the time comes.

I also had a look under the flipper 2 sticker, and it has the
following markings:
MA 5A9234
027A021K
160127 8011

Is this the correct type of chip to use here? I couldn't find any info
on it on google.

[tmcw]

Thanks for that, I'll leave the RNs for now then, I had a look under
the flipper and game roms, and they're RN too.

I'll have a look for the strip-style, probably won't be able to get
them locally though. Hopefully I won't have too many to replace, so
will go for regular sockets.

I had a look under the flipper 2 rom sticker, and it has the
following
markings:
MA 5A9234
027A021K
160127 8011

Is this rom the correct type? I haven't seen it listed in any of the
manuals or guides, and it doesn't show up on google.

[tmcw]

Post by firepower
You can go ahead and fix the audio board problems, that has it's own PSU
on board.  But just test it from the diagnostic switch on the sound
board, and then you can stop it by unplugging 10J1 from upper RH side of
the sound board.  I wouldn't trust the sounds you can get from the
game's diagnostic tests until the 40-way is replaced.
IC9 (6808 CPU) must be correct or you wouldn't get the sound board to
run at all. So forget that.  It's loading the ROM and playing sounds and
speech.  I would say the voltages on the xtal and at the data bus are
OK. You should see something on the databus if the card is running.  Why
would it be 0v? Pin 40 (not) reset should be logic high, which is +5v.
Anything 4-5v is a good reading.  If you ground that pin briefly, it
should reboot the CPU, which is another way of stopping the sound
board's self test.
You need to concentrate on the DAC / Audio side of the board, which you
told me by removing the speech card and still getting low volume.  See:http://www.firepower.2ya.com/index1.html
and click on the sound/speech card for lots of info most of which you
probably won't need (Including a Leon Test ROM for soundboards) as your
board is running.  There is also troubleshooting and diagnostics info in
the Flipper Maint Manual which you can print out for reference.at:http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/FlipperManual.pdf
To look at the DAC logic, the parts are in the Red dashed box shown in
my schematic here:http://www.firepower.2ya.com/0-checklist.html
You want the Sound board logic diagram.  BTW  - There are also
driverboard and Sys6 MPU logic diagrams there which I drew and have been
using for reference.  For the layout of parts on the sound board see:http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/SoundBoard.pdf
Where the 2 pages show a slightly different speech board design.
First check for +12v DC (or so, higher is OK) at TP1 and -12v DC at TP2.
This is unregulated so will vary maybe up to +/-14v.
Next Ov at TP3, which is ground.  And +5v regulated at TP4.  You can see
this on the PSU part of the sound board schematics.
To fix these voltages, you usually replace capacitors.
You can measure the same voltages at the three caps on the bottom RH
C27 = +12v
C26 = -12v
C25 = +5v
 From memory you measure using black lead to TP3 (gnd) and the read lead
to the LH side of each of the caps.
Actually all the electrolytic caps tend to "dry out" in the 30 years
since they were new.  So replacement cap kits sold, a list of parts and
a 6/7 Sound board kit:http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Category-45.asp
Caps and parts of interest for your problem are C28, C29 and Q2.
Original = Axial Electrolytic 10uF, 25 Volt
Kit = Axial Electrolytic 10uF, 50 Volt
C28 would rarely fail.  47pFD   Maplin part: WX52G 18p
Q2  would rarely fail.  Just a 2n4401 transistor. Also a low cost item.
I think Q2 either works or it doesn't.
But replacing C29 and then if that doesn't solve it, Q2 / C28 should
solve the volume problems. If I'm reading the schematics properly.
So you may want to try and buy just those 3 components first, as they
will be very cheap parts and readily available.

I finally got the resistor part (Q2) for the sound board, and the
general sound volume is working perfectly now. Speech card pot and
cabinet pot both balance and adjust the volume great - super to hear
the sounds properly now, machine is slowly coming to life again.

Haven't tackled the driver board PIAs/ICs yet, waiting for some parts
to arrive from the US before getting into that, maybe by the end of
the week.

Thanks again Richard for the information and guidance, it's much
appreciated.

[tmcw]

Ok, some major advances made with the machine, I have it working
almost fully...

My parts came, so I took out IC16, but was still getting problems on
the output side of IC11 (pins 6-9). Put in a socket, and a new 4049,
but it was still the same problems.

So I removed IC11, put in a socket, and a new 6821, and the machine
seems to be almost fully functional. The game adjustment (Auto-Up +
Advance) now works correctly, I can move between functions, and alter
the function values with the start game button. In a switch test, all
switches are indicated on the display correctly now. And most
importantly, I can start a game.

Sound was a bit weird at first, but I found that the dip switches
weren't set to electronic sounds, got them right for electronic sounds
and speech, and it sounds good. Sounds freaking incredible actually!
The background "pulse" that increases in pitch as you go through the
spinners really adds an edge to the game; you get it to a pitch that
is so high that you HAVE TO put it up through the spinners again or
your head is going to explode! I always liked the Williams sounds of
their early 80's games, and the sounds in Blackout have that
similarity - I think I'll be looking after this machine for a long
time to come.

Also, I did have some issues with some of the switches not registering
correctly all the time at first, but all they needed was a clean with
a business card to clean the contacts. The trickiest was the right
kicker that was kicking, but not registering sounds or scores, but
once I understood how that unit operated, it was easily solved. The
special solenoids section of Marks guide helped with figuring that one
out.

The only major problem with the machine now is that on a cold start,
the sounds and speech won't work. If it's on for a minute, and shut
down and on again, the sounds work fine. Any way of troubleshooting
this? If you remember, I was getting a low voltage on TP1 of the sound
card, at 10.8v. Looking back over the previous posts, you (Richard/
firepower) mentioned C27 would be the best move to raise the 10.8v
higher. Do you think the cold start/no sounds would be related to the
C27?

[tmcw]

Ok, some major advances made with the machine, I have it working
almost fully...

My parts came, so I took out IC16, but was still getting problems on
the output side of IC11 (pins 6-9). Put in a socket, and a new 4049,
but it was still the same problems.

So I removed IC11, put in a socket, and a new 6821, and the machine
seems to be almost fully functional. The game adjustment (Auto-Up +
Advance) now works correctly, I can move between functions, and alter
the function values with the start game button. In a switch test, all
switches are indicated on the display correctly now. And most
importantly, I can start a game.

Sound was a bit weird at first, but I found that the dip switches
weren't set to electronic sounds, got them right for electronic
sounds
and speech, and it sounds good. Sounds freaking incredible actually!
The background "pulse" that increases in pitch as you go through the
spinners really adds an edge to the game; you get it to a pitch that
is so high that you HAVE TO put it up through the spinners again or
your head is going to explode! I always liked the Williams sounds of
their early 80's games, and the sounds in Blackout have that
similarity - I think I'll be looking after this machine for a long
time to come.

Also, I did have some issues with some of the switches not
registering
correctly all the time at first, but all they needed was a clean with
a business card to clean the contacts. The trickiest was the right
kicker that was kicking, but not registering sounds or scores, but
once I understood how that unit operated, it was easily solved. The
special solenoids section of Marks guide helped with figuring that
one
out.

The only major problem with the machine now is that on a cold start,
the sounds and speech won't work. If it's on for a minute, and shut
down and on again, the sounds work fine. Any way of troubleshooting
this? If you remember, I was getting a low voltage on TP1 of the
sound
card, at 10.8v. Looking back over the previous posts, you (Richard/
firepower) mentioned C27 would be the best move to raise the 10.8v
higher. Do you think the cold start/no sounds would be related to the
C27?

EDIT: I also did some experiments with switches "in-game", flicking
spinners, tripping switches, etc, and noticed an issue with the upper
right bank - not sure exactly the symptom, but it's like only 2 have
to go down to complete the bank (and it doesn't seem consistent). I've
linked to 2 photos below, centre bank is ok, right bank is where there
are problems.

Loading Image...
Loading Image...

The wiring seems different between the two, and the white wire at the
bottom of the right bank looks like a later addition (looks like a
bread-bag tie-up!). And it doesn't look like how the centre bank
wiring looks. There is actually no wire connected to the 3rd solder
point on the middle drop-down of the right bank. Should that white
wire be connected to the 3rd solder point, so that the wiring would
look more like the centre bank (the two light brown wires that jump
across all 3 drop-downs)?

The more I look at it, the more I think it should.

Also, when I was disassembling the unit, one of the green-black wires
(on the rightbank) came off - am I right in assuming it should be
connected to the same solder point as the other green-black wire? From
what I've learned about the wiring so far, I think it should, but just
double-checking.

[firepower]

Hi again.

Post by tmcw
Ok, some major advances made with the machine, I have it working
almost fully...
My parts came, so I took out IC16, but was still getting problems on
the output side of IC11 (pins 6-9). Put in a socket, and a new 4049,
but it was still the same problems.
So I removed IC11, put in a socket, and a new 6821, and the machine
seems to be almost fully functional. The game adjustment (Auto-Up +
Advance) now works correctly, I can move between functions, and alter
the function values with the start game button. In a switch test, all
switches are indicated on the display correctly now. And most
importantly, I can start a game.

Sorry I have been away and dealing with some personal things this week.
Very glad to hear you are making such good progress. Yay!

Post by tmcw
Sound was a bit weird at first, but I found that the dip switches
weren't set to electronic sounds, got them right for electronic
sounds
and speech, and it sounds good. Sounds freaking incredible actually!
The background "pulse" that increases in pitch as you go through the
spinners really adds an edge to the game; you get it to a pitch that
is so high that you HAVE TO put it up through the spinners again or
your head is going to explode! I always liked the Williams sounds of
their early 80's games, and the sounds in Blackout have that
similarity - I think I'll be looking after this machine for a long
time to come.

Brilliant sounds on that game! Firepower too. Sound boards and the
sounds were due to the genius of Eugene Jarvis, who wrote the Defender
arcade games. Many great WMS video games used the exact same design,
even shared some sounds. That's probably why it's so nostalgic.

Post by tmcw
Also, I did have some issues with some of the switches not
registering
correctly all the time at first, but all they needed was a clean with
a business card to clean the contacts. The trickiest was the right
kicker that was kicking, but not registering sounds or scores, but
once I understood how that unit operated, it was easily solved. The
special solenoids section of Marks guide helped with figuring that
one out.

:o))

Post by tmcw
The only major problem with the machine now is that on a cold start,
the sounds and speech won't work. If it's on for a minute, and shut
down and on again, the sounds work fine. Any way of troubleshooting
this? If you remember, I was getting a low voltage on TP1 of the
sound
card, at 10.8v. Looking back over the previous posts, you (Richard/
firepower) mentioned C27 would be the best move to raise the 10.8v
higher. Do you think the cold start/no sounds would be related to the
C27?

One thing to try when you don't have sound is to measure the voltage on
pin 40 of the CPU on the sound board without a power down. Maybe +4 to
+5v there, provided by the reset circuit, which starts the CPU once the
voltages stabilise. Trouble is when you have a low input +12v, then the
+5v at the output of the reset circuit will also be too low.

Here's the test:
1. Start game from cold.
2. Press Diagnostic switch on Sound card. No sounds.
3. Inject +5v from TP4 on the sound card (which should be 4.5-5v) to pin
40 of the CPU.
2. Press Diagnostic switch on Sound card. If you get sounds it is the
reset circuit.

So yes, it sounds like C27 is worth a shot for the reset issue on the
sound card.

This is fairly easy to troubleshoot and is either the +12v source
(likely) or if not, then between +12v and CPU IC9 pin 40 at the top
right of this schematic:
http://www.firepower.2ya.com/Sys67-Sound-Logic.pdf

I usually just replace in order C27, then Q4 and finally Q3 (both are
2n4401). Stop when it works reliably, the other components are usually
good.

Post by tmcw
EDIT: I also did some experiments with switches "in-game", flicking
spinners, tripping switches, etc, and noticed an issue with the upper
right bank - not sure exactly the symptom, but it's like only 2 have
to go down to complete the bank (and it doesn't seem consistent). I've
linked to 2 photos below, centre bank is ok, right bank is where there
are problems.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu357/polyfusion/CentreBank.jpg
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu357/polyfusion/RightBank.jpg
The wiring seems different between the two, and the white wire at the
bottom of the right bank looks like a later addition (looks like a
bread-bag tie-up!). And it doesn't look like how the centre bank
wiring looks. There is actually no wire connected to the 3rd solder
point on the middle drop-down of the right bank. Should that white
wire be connected to the 3rd solder point, so that the wiring would
look more like the centre bank (the two light brown wires that jump
across all 3 drop-downs)?

Yes. White wire in your RightBank.jpg should be wired to the 3rd Spot
(empty in your picture). Follow the wiring on the working one...

The way it works is the two outside contacts connect together for target
scoring, and the two inside contacts connect for the "series" or all
targets down circuit.

But the drop targets rely on "horseshoe contacts" on which both contacts
need to be present, as well as the copper tracks not being worn through.
It looks to me like someone tried to work around a faulty trace or
more likely a broken contact on the right bank (middle) to keep the game
running by completing the all down series without having to drop the
middle target.

In that case, you need to find a old DT (Drop Target) assembly to use
for parts, I may have some old DT circuit boards... ping me on a
personal email once you know what looks wrong and I'll send you what I can.

And a tip, don't crank down any of the screws too tight when assembling
DT's. It's better to fix them just by taking off the circuit boards on
the back until you understand them better.

Post by tmcw
The more I look at it, the more I think it should.
Also, when I was disassembling the unit, one of the green-black wires
(on the rightbank) came off - am I right in assuming it should be
connected to the same solder point as the other green-black wire? From
what I've learned about the wiring so far, I think it should, but just
double-checking.

Correct.

I can tell were getting there now.

-Richard

[tmcw]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm very grateful for the help I've been
getting here...

You were both right about one of the DTs being bypassed; when I looked
more closely at the way it was wired, it made a lot sense, thanks for
the explanations.

I had the right bank assembly apart, and the copper traces on the back
had a LOT of carbon built up on them, looked like someone had taken a
2B pencil to them, so I cleaned them off and they are registering
perfectly now. There is a little groove worn (or pressed into) where
the horseshoe shaped contact runs up and down on them, but it's not
broken through yet, so they'll be fine for now (I'd imagine the centre
bank is in similar condition).

I've also noticed that all the DTs don't always stay up when they're
reset by the solenoid, probably from wear n' tear? The left DT is the
worst culprit. Anything I can adjust, or is it likely to involve
replacing the plastic part that drops down?

Getting back to the sound card, I measured the voltage at pin 40 on
the cpu, and it's +5v (+4.95v to be exact). I did the test, but it
didn't make a difference, the sound doesn't appear until the machine
has been warmed up and switched off and on again. So my reset circuit
should be ok?

I also had a closer look at C27, and it's 4700uF/16V, not 12000uF/16V
as shown in your pdfs on Firepower. Could this be a reason I'm having
these issues?

Just to describe a bit more about what I've observed, I've noticed
that if I turn on and off a few times over the first minute, the
sounds won't come on, until it's been powered up for a minute or 2,
and then switched off and on again. From a cold start, I can leave the
machine on for 30 mins or longer, and the sounds don't appear, until
it's been switched off, and then on again.

Also, I was looking for the Q3 in the SoundBoard.pdf file, but
couldn't find it. I did see a Q9 near the Q4; is the Q9 supposed to be
Q3?

[firepower]

Yeah, WMS went with 4700uF/16V, and not 12000uF/16V later on. Should
work the same, I prefer to replace with the higher value, from
10-12,000uF and at least 16v. You can go with a higher voltage if the
part is cheaper (so an axial electrolytic 12,000uF @ 25v is fine).

Drop Targets, they lock with a ledge on the target to stay up. So if
that's too worn down, then you need to replace them. But they also get
some "spring" from the contacts at the back of the target to push them
forward. So it's a balancing act, because if the contacts are sprung too
far out then they wear out the circuit boards. Some use a very small
amount of teflon contact (gel) lube to help protect the copper traces
and horseshoes, it can help the DT to move better too. You need to
google RGP if you want specific products.

Reset circuit sounds OK, as the voltage at pin 40 is fine. Which means
the +12v can be considered OK as well. And Q4 listed as Q9 is a
mistake, they are the same part. I'll make a note and fix that.
Q4/Q3(or Q9) make up the reset circuit along with a few other components.

No sure on the sounds needing to "warm up", usual suspects are
capacitors with a problem like that. I honestly forget in all these
posts if you got a cap kit and replaced any sound board caps. Replace
C26 is my call on this error, -12v is used on the D/A converter (DAC) at
IC13. And on the speech board for the op-amps.

Also C29 is a decoupling cap, which filters out DC from the sound
signal. Between the DAC and the amp (or speech board and then the amp
if W1 is removed). Original C29 10uF, 25 Volt. Again using an axial
electrolytic 10uF @ 50v is fine. But the capacitance (uF) value needs
to be exact.

Replace caps first, then other usual suspect items might be ROMs and IC
sockets. Finally parts on the speech card. You can try putting a wire
jumper at W1 and removing the speech card, then test to see if the warm
up issue goes away. If so, it's isolated the problem to be connections
to/from the speech card, or the components on the speech card where
sound+speech are mixed. Unlikely but fairly easy to eliminate as the
source of the problem.

-Richard

Post by tmcw
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm very grateful for the help I've been
getting here...
You were both right about one of the DTs being bypassed; when I looked
more closely at the way it was wired, it made a lot sense, thanks for
the explanations.
I had the right bank assembly apart, and the copper traces on the back
had a LOT of carbon built up on them, looked like someone had taken a
2B pencil to them, so I cleaned them off and they are registering
perfectly now. There is a little groove worn (or pressed into) where
the horseshoe shaped contact runs up and down on them, but it's not
broken through yet, so they'll be fine for now (I'd imagine the centre
bank is in similar condition).
I've also noticed that all the DTs don't always stay up when they're
reset by the solenoid, probably from wear n' tear? The left DT is the
worst culprit. Anything I can adjust, or is it likely to involve
replacing the plastic part that drops down?
Getting back to the sound card, I measured the voltage at pin 40 on
the cpu, and it's +5v (+4.95v to be exact). I did the test, but it
didn't make a difference, the sound doesn't appear until the machine
has been warmed up and switched off and on again. So my reset circuit
should be ok?
I also had a closer look at C27, and it's 4700uF/16V, not 12000uF/16V
as shown in your pdfs on Firepower. Could this be a reason I'm having
these issues?
Just to describe a bit more about what I've observed, I've noticed
that if I turn on and off a few times over the first minute, the
sounds won't come on, until it's been powered up for a minute or 2,
and then switched off and on again. From a cold start, I can leave the
machine on for 30 mins or longer, and the sounds don't appear, until
it's been switched off, and then on again.
Also, I was looking for the Q3 in the SoundBoard.pdf file, but
couldn't find it. I did see a Q9 near the Q4; is the Q9 supposed to be
Q3?

[tmcw]

Thanks again Richard...

I had another look at the DTs, and saw that the ledge that the DT sits
on was a bit "greasy" looking, so I cleaned it off, and they seem to
be returning correctly now all the time the solenoid kicks them up.
Getting to understand the mechanics of the machine, I'm beginning to
appreciate the maintenance that will be needed to keep the machine
100%. The DTs are probably the most complicated unit in there, so
keeping on top of things shouldn't be too difficult. Well worth it
though.

I did replace C29, then C28, then Q2 on the sound card to fix the low
general sounds volume issue that I was having, and that fixed it.

I did your test above with W1 jumpered, and the speech card
disconnected, and the sounds came on perfectly from a cold start. I've
only tested it once yet, but I'd say it's repeatable. I'll leave it
for a while, retry, and then retry again with the speech board
attached. Having a look at the connections, continuity is good between
the two boards, and they do look clean and sound.

Anything else I should look for before condemning any components?

[tmcw]

Another question regarding board and cabinet numbers...

When the games are manufactured, would all the boards typically have
the same serial number as the cabinet? The sound, speech and power
boards have the same number as the cabinet on mine, but the driver and
mpu boards are different.

In fact, I was looking at the ipsnd.net website, and searched for the
serial number that's on the mpu board (444834), and your Alien Poker
came up!

[tmcw]

Tested some more, and having the speech card connected definitely
causes the machine to have no sounds from a cold start.

Also, another question regarding board and cabinet numbers...

When the games are manufactured, would all the boards typically have
the same serial number as the cabinet? The sound, speech and power
boards have the same number as the cabinet on mine, but the driver
and
mpu boards are different.

In fact, I was looking at the ipsnd.net website, and searched for the
serial number that's on the mpu board (444834), and your Alien Poker
came up!

[Hans]

I belive that they originally had all matching boards from the
factory, on the few machines I have, most of the boards match.
However, the typical method of repair at the time was to swap out the
boards, and the "bad" ones went to the depot to be fixed and
installed in other machines later on.

-Hans

[tmcw]

Post by Hans
I belive that they originally had all matching boards from the
factory,  on the few machines I have, most of the boards match.
However, the typical method of repair at the time was to swap out the
boards,  and the "bad" ones went to the depot to be fixed and
installed in other machines later on.
-Hans

Makes sense Hans. I had a look at the display boards as well, and
they've all different serials too, so I have a bit of a Frankenstein
here. Most of the numbers co-incide from about Flash to Gorgar. I
suppose the boards could have been exchanged in the wild too, not just
reassembled at the factory.

Anyway, I did another cold start on the machine today, and the sounds
came on immediately, so perhaps it was a connections problem after
all. Maybe the act of unplugging and replugging the connection cleaned
it.

[tmcw]

Ok, some major advances made with the machine, I have it working
almost fully...

My parts came, so I took out IC16, but was still getting problems on
the output side of IC11 (pins 6-9). Put in a socket, and a new 4049,
but it was still the same problems.

So I removed IC11, put in a socket, and a new 6821, and the machine
seems to be almost fully functional. The game adjustment (Auto-Up +
Advance) now works correctly, I can move between functions, and alter
the function values with the start game button. In a switch test, all
switches are indicated on the display correctly now. And most
importantly, I can start a game.

Sound was a bit weird at first, but I found that the dip switches
weren't set to electronic sounds, got them right for electronic sounds
and speech, and it sounds good. Sounds freaking incredible actually!
The background "pulse" that increases in pitch as you go through the
spinners really adds an edge to the game; you get it to a pitch that
is so high that you HAVE TO put it up through the spinners again or
your head is going to explode! I always liked the Williams sounds of
their early 80's games, and the sounds in Blackout have that
similarity - I think I'll be looking after this machine for a long
time to come.

Also, I did have some issues with some of the switches not registering
correctly all the time at first, but all they needed was a clean with
a business card to clean the contacts. The trickiest was the right
kicker that was kicking, but not registering sounds or scores, but
once I understood how that unit operated, it was easily solved. The
special solenoids section of Marks guide helped with figuring that one
out.

The only major problem with the machine now is that on a cold start,
the sounds and speech won't work. If it's on for a minute, and shut
down and on again, the sounds work fine. Any way of troubleshooting
this? If you remember, I was getting a low voltage on TP1 of the sound
card, at 10.8v. Looking back over the previous posts, you (Richard/
firepower) mentioned C27 would be the best move to raise the 10.8v
higher. Do you think the cold start/no sounds would be related to the
C27?

EDIT: I also did some experiments with switches "in-game", flicking
spinners, tripping switches, etc, and noticed an issue with the upper
right bank - not sure exactly the symptom, but it's like only 2 have
to go down to complete the bank (and it doesn't seem consistent). I've
linked to 2 photos below, centre bank is ok, right bank is where there
are problems.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu357/polyfusion/CentreBank.jpg
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu357/polyfusion/RightBank.jpg

The wiring seems different between the two, and the white wire at the
bottom of the right bank looks like a later addition (looks like a
bread-bag tie-up!). And it doesn't look like how the centre bank
wiring looks. There is actually no wire connected to the 3rd solder
point on the middle drop-down of the right bank. Should that white
wire be connected to the 3rd solder point, so that the wiring would
look more like the centre bank (the two light brown wires that jump
across all 3 drop-downs)?

The more I look at it, the more I think it should.

Also, when I was disassembling the unit, one of the green-black wires
(on the rightbank) came off - am I right in assuming it should be
connected to the same solder point as the other green-black wire? From
what I've learned about the wiring so far, I think it should, but just
double-checking.

[Hans]

Pictures aren't working for me unfortunately, but from your
description of the target wiring..... you've found the issue. There
are two switches wired per target. One handles the score, and the
other registers the target being down. When the targets are in a
bank of them, the "down" target gets wired in series across all the
targets of the bank, and only really registers if ALL the targets are
down. Sounds like the right side target bank has only two of the
targets in series, with the third bypassed.

Glad to hear about everything else running well. The sound problem,
I'm dealing with a similar issue on a Firepower..... but haven't done
anything yet to figure it out yet. Right now I've got a couple CPU
and driver boards I need to get done and sold before I'll start
looking at that.

-Hans

[firepower]

I would probably start with the switch diagnostics to verify that all
the switches in the switch matrix are working... you should get a number
that displays when you close switches matching that number in the Matrix
table in the Op handbook. Start there and I bet you figure it out.

Also pressing the diag button on the cpu (lower of the two) with the
coin door open should tell you something. You should get both LEDs
flashing twice and then they go out. Any other response is considered
an error condition and will point to the fault, if you can repeat the
*same* results over and over. e.g. both LEDs staying lit would indicate
IC19 the 5101 CMOS RAM, which is a common weakness on these games- but
of course other issues are possible. Se CPUboard.PDF on the
http://www.firepowepinball.com site, as it is the same exact boardset as
in your game.

Best wishes finding the faults and fixing your game. Blackout is one of
the best single ball, single level SS games IMHO.

-Richard

Post by tmcw boards
WOW! Thanks for all the replies.
Game doesn't start from the front button. #18 has a value of 20 which
I understand is a max credit possible of 20.
The switch for game start seems to be ok (on a continuity test). Does
the door need to be closed to allow a game to start?
In the lower display (the one with 2 2-digit numbers), the left one
currently displays 16, the right one displays 00. I noticed that power
cycling seemed to be increasing the left number from 00 to 16, but it
seems not every power cycle incremented the display by 1.

Power cycles shouldn't add credits.

Post by tmcw boards
Other observations: The two "Game Over" bulbs constantly flash, and
the next bulb over, "Ball In Play" is constantly lit. Are these
normal?

Yes, I thinks so.

Post by tmcw boards
The cabinet pot does increase/decrease speech and general sounds
(sounds a bit dirty though), but the trimmer on the speech board
doesn't seem to affect the volume of the general sounds; it does
affect speech volume though, and sounds "clean".
No difference whether a ball is in the machine or not. Switch
underneath to detect the ball appears to be working.
One other observation: looks like there was a liquid spill into the
left-hand side at some stage, sticky stuff around coin mech, start
button, door switch, and on the cables, though the cable box-
connection seems clean; unplugged and plugged it a few times to see if
things would change, but no change.

[firepower]

I would probably start with the switch diagnostics to verify that all
the switches in the switch matrix are working... you should get a number
that displays when you close switches matching that number in the Matrix
table in the Op handbook. Start there and I bet you figure it out.

Also pressing the diag button on the cpu (lower of the two) with the
coin door open should tell you something. You should get both LEDs
flashing twice and then they go out. Any other response is considered
an error condition and will point to the fault, if you can repeat the
*same* results over and over. e.g. both LEDs staying lit would indicate
IC19 the 5101 CMOS RAM, which is a common weakness on these games- but
of course other issues are possible. See CPUboard.PDF on the
http://www.firepowepinball.com site, as it is the same exact boardset as
in your game.

Best wishes finding the faults and fixing your game. Blackout is one of
the best single ball, single level SS games IMHO.

-Richard

Post by tmcw boards
WOW! Thanks for all the replies.
Game doesn't start from the front button. #18 has a value of 20 which
I understand is a max credit possible of 20.
The switch for game start seems to be ok (on a continuity test). Does
the door need to be closed to allow a game to start?
In the lower display (the one with 2 2-digit numbers), the left one
currently displays 16, the right one displays 00. I noticed that power
cycling seemed to be increasing the left number from 00 to 16, but it
seems not every power cycle incremented the display by 1.

Power cycles shouldn't add credits.

Post by tmcw boards
Other observations: The two "Game Over" bulbs constantly flash, and
the next bulb over, "Ball In Play" is constantly lit. Are these
normal?

Yes, I thinks so.

Post by tmcw boards
The cabinet pot does increase/decrease speech and general sounds
(sounds a bit dirty though), but the trimmer on the speech board
doesn't seem to affect the volume of the general sounds; it does
affect speech volume though, and sounds "clean".
No difference whether a ball is in the machine or not. Switch
underneath to detect the ball appears to be working.
One other observation: looks like there was a liquid spill into the
left-hand side at some stage, sticky stuff around coin mech, start
button, door switch, and on the cables, though the cable box-
connection seems clean; unplugged and plugged it a few times to see if
things would change, but no change.

[tmcw boards]

Thanks again all for the replies.

I had another look at the trimmer, and it does seem to balance the
speech/general sounds, but the volume of the general is still too low,
with the cabinet pot up full. I also tried disconnecting the speech
board and setting jumper 2 off, but I ended up with no sounds, even
when I pressed the sound test button.

I tried the diagnostic button, but the LEDs flashed twice as you said,
and then went out, which is good I guess.

I've got lots of documentation that I need to print out, so I'll give
the switch matrix a look tomorrow. Not sure I fully know how to do it,
but I'll figure it out.

And thanks for the wishes, looking forward to getting it running, saw
a few videos on youtube, and love the sounds (big Robotron fan!), and
the play isn't too complex or busy, so would be a keeper if I can get
it working 100%.

As an afterthought, if I set it to freeplay, maybe that would get
around any problem with the coin switches?

[someotherguy]

Post by tmcw boards
Thanks again all for the replies.
I had another look at the trimmer, and it does seem to balance the
speech/general sounds, but the volume of the general is still too low,
with the cabinet pot up full. I also tried disconnecting the speech
board and setting jumper 2 off, but I ended up with no sounds, even
when I pressed the sound test button.

Amplifier could be weak or pot might be bad.

Post by tmcw boards
I tried the diagnostic button, but the LEDs flashed twice as you said,
and then went out, which is good I guess.
I've got lots of documentation that I need to print out, so I'll give
the switch matrix a look tomorrow. Not sure I fully know how to do it,
but I'll figure it out.
And thanks for the wishes, looking forward to getting it running, saw
a few videos on youtube, and love the sounds (big Robotron fan!), and
the play isn't too complex or busy, so would be a keeper if I can get
it working 100%.
As an afterthought, if I set it to freeplay, maybe that would get
around any problem with the coin switches?

No...if the problem is a stuck coin switch (just look at them) then it will
still interfere with the start button. They're all on the same column of the
matrix including the plumb bob tilt, ball roll tilt, slam switch, and the high
score reset button on the service panel.

Richard

[seymour.shabow]

Post by firepower
How does it know the ball isn't stuck in the Blackout eject hole?
That switch could be funky or the coil could be fried. It would be a
real mess to charge someone a credit when the ball could not be served
up. But I do understand *some* single ball games will do this...
depending on programming.

Different era and different thinking when they were writing the games.

Not really a mess, in an arcade you could get an attendant, and they'd
give you a quarter back, and fix the game, in a 7-11 or something you go
to the counter.

Firepower, yes, checks the trough as do all the multiball games.

The only code from that era that is 100% bulletproof is anything to do
with issuing credits.

-scott CARGPB#29

[tmcw boards]

Ok, had another go and observed the following:

In diagnostic mode, when testing the switches, the test was stopping
on 02 (Ball Roll Tilt). Physically, the switch looks ok, there is no
ball in the chute to make a connection.

I also tried going into game adjustment to switch to freeplay, but I
can't raise or lower the function number when I get there. The coin
door has to be open, which it is. I tested continuity on the door
switch, and when either pushed in, or out, I get continuity.

For some reason, I took the high score button off the bracket it's
bolted to, and the diagnostics for switches then jumped from 02 to 08.
Does the diagnostics display all stuck switches, or does it stop on
the one thats stuck?

[tmcw boards]

Had another run through the switch diagnostic, and when the test
begins, it displays:
08 (high score reset)
01 (plumb bob tilt)
02 (ball roll tilt)

And then remains on 02.

Any suggestions on what to try next?

[Hans]

Post by tmcw boards
Had another run through the switch diagnostic, and when the test
08 (high score reset)
01 (plumb bob tilt)
02 (ball roll tilt)
And then remains on 02.
Any suggestions on what to try next?

System 6 games only show the last switch that was activated, but that
doesn't mean other ones aren't also being registered. It's not like
system 7 and later games that cycle through all the stuck switches
in.

I haven't worked on that many system 6/7 games, but every one I've
seen so far had a physical wiring problem in the coin door causing
switch problems in column 1. Those leaf style coin switches are very
easy to ground out into the coin door chassis through the spring
wire.

Have you tried disconnecting the switch connectors from the driver
board to see if the switches clear or stay closed? The diagnostic
swtiches will still work if you do this, they use a different
connector.

-Hans

[firepower]

Yeah, as Hans points out, it seems like stuck switches or a bad diode or
short on Column one.

This sounds like a good test: with the game off, remove connector 2J2
(upper right hand connector on driver board). Then turn the game back
on, and see if you get any switches triggered in the switch diags.

If not, then you have a problem in switch column one. Check that the
switch blade (there is only one) on the ball roll tilt is clear of the
metal frame. Also you need to check the wiring and diodes on all the
switches in COL one for shorts, which as Hans said includes the coin
switches. Once you get it working, set to "free play", and then stick
electrical tape between the leafs of the coin door switches to isolate
them from getting stuck closed.

If you still get switches registering with the connector removed, then
you have a problem with the switch matrix on the driver board. Could be
a PIA. In all senses of the word.

-Richard

Post by Hans

Post by tmcw boards
Had another run through the switch diagnostic, and when the test
08 (high score reset)
01 (plumb bob tilt)
02 (ball roll tilt)
And then remains on 02.
Any suggestions on what to try next?

System 6 games only show the last switch that was activated, but that
doesn't mean other ones aren't also being registered. It's not like
system 7 and later games that cycle through all the stuck switches
in.
I haven't worked on that many system 6/7 games, but every one I've
seen so far had a physical wiring problem in the coin door causing
switch problems in column 1. Those leaf style coin switches are very
easy to ground out into the coin door chassis through the spring
wire.
Have you tried disconnecting the switch connectors from the driver
board to see if the switches clear or stay closed? The diagnostic
swtiches will still work if you do this, they use a different
connector.
-Hans

[tmcw boards]

Thanks.

Tried that, disconnected the 2J2, still getting the same switches
showing up.

I was reading somewhere about the coin door solenoid, how it should be
energised when the machine is on, and deenergised when the machine is
switched off (to allow coin return if the machine is switched off).
That coil has never energised for me. Could this be causing an issue
that cascades to seemingly other problems?

Also, what about the coin door switch - from the continuity test, it
doesn't appear to be functioning correctly. Anything I can do to trick
the machine into thinking the door is open? (I get continuity when the
switch is open or closed, and I assume continuity means that the
switch is closed, hence the machine thinks the door is closed,
therefore the machine won't let me play with game adjustment).

[firepower]

OK. Now we are getting further. I'll start with the coin door.

Coil for coin lockout. That coil allows coins to be inserted up to max
credits setting, and then stops more coins being inserted until those
credits are used. That's all. So if you set free play, it does not
matter at all for a home game. I would disconnect it and tape off the
wires. Shouldn't cause other problems.

Coin door switch. 1J4-1 is the memory protect from the coin door
interlock. If it is grounded, the coin door is closed. To open the
interlock, just disconnect the (I think) blue wire from the switch. You
could also pull the blue wire from 1J4-1, but this is less good to do,
as you will replace the switch anyway eventually.

Then you can jumper from 1J4-2 (ground) to 1J4-1 (memory protect with a
short wire or for ease of use a unbent paperclip to test things or
"close" the coin door.

To check the circuit on the MPU board is working, TP3 on the MPU board
will show the state of the interlock. Door closed TP3 is +5v. Door
open it's 0v. If you don't get those readings on TP3 usiong your jumper
wire on 1J4 as above, I would check for +5v on the pullup resistor R14
and then from there for +5v at pins 9&10 of IC24, you should see the
opposite reading from 9&10 on pin 8 (0v or ground in this case) . If not
I would suspect IC24.

Then you should get game adjustment. If you have wacky values in the
game settings, and once you *can* control the memory protect, you can
try a factory reset - the procedure is in the flipper maintenance
manual. It uses the upper DIP switches (#7 ON) and the Command Enter
button. See around pg 16 here:
http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/FlipperManual.pdf

To hold game adjustments, you need a good remote battery holder
(+4-4.5v) and also a good 5101 CMOS RAM. So if none of this helps, as I
said, you may have a problem with the 5101 chip at IC19.


BTW - I am not aware that any of this (door open/closed) would stop you
from starting a game... so we are back to a problem with stuck switches
at COL 1 of the Switch Matrix.

So - if unplugging 2J2 (and I would also pull 2J3 the switch inputs)
still shows stuck switches in diagnostics... Then it looks like you may
have an issue with the switch matrix PIA at IC10 on the driverboard. OR
a problem with the signals between the driverboard and the MPU board.
What will probably fix the switch problems is replacing with a known
good driverboard from another game. Or or relplacing the (MC)6821 PIA
at IC10 (with a new 40-way socket) and replacing the female part of the
80-way interconnection on the driverboard. Both of these are fairly
serious tasks and need some parts and professional soldering skills,
IMHO to avoid hacking up your driverboard.

As an example of an easier solution to get the game running, you could
buy this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Williams-Pinball-Solenoid-Driver-System-3-7-Board-100-/220651973480
Buy it now: $130+shipping. I do not know this seller, but the feedback
is excellent.

You may also want to ping this guy in Canada: http://www.linkpete.com
whom I have bought a good Sys 6 MPU from and trust. I didn't see a
driverboard for sale on his eBay store: http://stores.ebay.com/linkpete
But ePay isn't the best method around, to my mind.

Any driverboard from System 3-7 will work, as they are all (nearly) the
same. So there are lots of good ones out there and that keeps the
prices lower.

Sorry for the length of my reply, I really hope you get the your game
running, as Blackout is an awesome pinball game.

Cheers

-Richard

Post by tmcw boards
Thanks.
Tried that, disconnected the 2J2, still getting the same switches
showing up.
I was reading somewhere about the coin door solenoid, how it should be
energised when the machine is on, and deenergised when the machine is
switched off (to allow coin return if the machine is switched off).
That coil has never energised for me. Could this be causing an issue
that cascades to seemingly other problems?
Also, what about the coin door switch - from the continuity test, it
doesn't appear to be functioning correctly. Anything I can do to trick
the machine into thinking the door is open? (I get continuity when the
switch is open or closed, and I assume continuity means that the
switch is closed, hence the machine thinks the door is closed,
therefore the machine won't let me play with game adjustment).

[Hans]

Like Richard said, you'll need to pull both 2J2 and 2J3 to isolate the
problem, a wiring problem in the column will still show up if 2J2 is
still connected. If the problem goes away with both of those removed,
it's a wiring issue in the playfield. But if the problem still shows,
it's most likely the driver board. Any visible corrosion on the
boards near the batteries or the top-right of the driver board? The
switch matrix is right underneath the batteries on a system 6, and any
leaking batteries drip right into that area.

Don't rule out repairing your existing board as opposed to just buying
one, almost all the used boards have been repaired at least once
already anyway. Lots of guys out there that could also repair your
board , myself included, but no sense in having you send it out
anywhere or buying a new board until the problem is isolated to either
the boards or the wiring.

As to the coin door coil, again it would either be a problem in the
wiring or the driver board keeping it from firing. But either way,
I'd disconnect for now as a shorted coil can damage the driver board,
and it's not needed unless you use coins to play. (even then, I'd just
remove the mechanism totally or lock it open)


-Hans

[tmcw boards]

Thanks again. Did the following:

Disconnected coin door coil.
Disconnected blue/red wire from door switch.
Jumpered 1J4-2 to 1J4-1: at TP3, I got 3.89V - is this too low?
When I removed the jumper, I got 0.05V

Found R14 (finally!) and got 5.05V at the bottom, and 4.94V at the
top.
Points 9 and 10 on IC24 seem to be connected directly to the top of
R14, so I was getting 4.94V at these points too.
Point 8 gave 0V as expected.

The game came with a remote battery holder, and the 3 batteries are
currently showing exactly 4V.

The original battery holder is actually in very good condition, very
clean, no corrosion or battery leakage evident.

When looking at the board, I did notice a diode crossing from pin 7 on
IC24 to pin 4 on IC5 - is this normal? I don't see it in the schematic.

[tmcw boards]

Oh, forgot to say that I still can't move up or down within game
adjustments.

[Hans]

Not sure why they would have put a diode on that location, which way
is it blocking? It's definitely going to change how the diagnostic
switch is operating though, as IC24 is essentially the only thing
controlling that switch. Strange.
That's one thing I hate about modifications to boards, is when there's
no obvious reason why it was done, and no repair tag or label to
explain it.

-Hans

[firepower]

At least you know your mem protect circuit is behaving as it should. I
think 3.89v is a little low for TP3, it should read the same as your
4.94v on IC24 pins 9/10. Something is pulling that down, maybe the
extra diode is putting noise on the ground of IC24? I would consider
removing that diode, having it there just doesn't sound right to me.
Then test your voltages and see if the diag switches start to work.

I've never seen that doide mod, IC24 pin 7 is a ground point, and IC5
pin 4 is connected directly to pin 11 (MR, the reset) of the 4020 which
is the "Interrupt timer gererator" for the CPU board... strange... I
would expect that to mess up the IRQ which would effect the diag switch
inputs. BTW the IRQ signal from the 4020 is used to control the length
of the coil "on time" the lamp strobes and it *also* strobes the
diagnostic switch inputs! Which you are having problems with. Hmmmm...

The MPU wouldn't run at all if the 4020 was totally toasted, so you can
assume that chip is working as it should.

-Richard

Post by tmcw boards
Disconnected coin door coil.
Disconnected blue/red wire from door switch.
Jumpered 1J4-2 to 1J4-1: at TP3, I got 3.89V - is this too low?
When I removed the jumper, I got 0.05V
Found R14 (finally!) and got 5.05V at the bottom, and 4.94V at the
top.
Points 9 and 10 on IC24 seem to be connected directly to the top of
R14, so I was getting 4.94V at these points too.
Point 8 gave 0V as expected.
The game came with a remote battery holder, and the 3 batteries are
currently showing exactly 4V.
The original battery holder is actually in very good condition, very
clean, no corrosion or battery leakage evident.
When looking at the board, I did notice a diode crossing from pin 7 on
IC24 to pin 4 on IC5 - is this normal? I don't see it in the schematic.

[firepower]

Oh and this may make some sense, click on the board (MPU, Driver.. etc)
to read my fix tips: http://www.firepower.2ya.com/index1

BTW- I've seen a board with very slow diags, diag switches moving really
slow. It could start a "slow" diagnostic mode- long delays on the
digits test, long flashes on lamp test, long wait between solenoids
firing. Switching on, then off and on quickly would get a game running,
which then would play. Sort of... but it wasn't right.

Once I figured this out it pointed to the IRQ. Replaced the IC25 "4020
IRQ timer" with a MC14020B which is the newer replacement part. Then
all OK. This may not be the problem in your case, but it's worth
bearing in mind here with strange diagnostic switch results.

Some of this has made it into the Marvin's guides which I assume you are
also using? Right? http://www.marvin3m.com/fix
or to jump to System 3-7 directly: http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37

Good luck, -Richard

[tmcw boards]

So I should just remove the diode? Don't know how to read a diode; can
you see it in this picture?

http://yfrog.com/5ximg0309ryj

[tmcw boards]

Might be easier to see in this cropped photo:

http://yfrog.com/0vdiodezoomj

[seymour.shabow]

Post by tmcw boards
http://yfrog.com/0vdiodezoomj

You sure that's not a capacitor? I'd think any kind of mod going to the
board wouldn't involve a diode.

Caps can look like that too they're used for filtering a lot of
times..... maybe it was put on there as a debouncer attempt?

-scott CARGPB#29

[seymour.shabow]

Post by seymour.shabow

Post by tmcw boards
http://yfrog.com/0vdiodezoomj

You sure that's not a capacitor? I'd think any kind of mod going to the
board wouldn't involve a diode.
Caps can look like that too they're used for filtering a lot of
times..... maybe it was put on there as a debouncer attempt?
-scott CARGPB#29

Looked at the schematic I don't know what that cap or diode is
attempting to fix.....

[firepower]

It looks factory to me. Yes, Scott is right ding, ding, ding! it's a
471M cap. The 471 deciphers as 470pF; M=20% tolerance and it's rated at
50v, but that doesn't matter in this location.

I had a look on some of my Sys 6 and Sys 6A boards. None on the Sys6
but found one 6A with this mod in place. My guess- it's a clocking
thing, increasing the time before the Timer resets, so it stretches the
IRQ to be closer to 1ms. I think normally without this, it would run at
more like 900uS.

I can also find it on a Sys 7 schematic as 470pF C86 between that point
and gnd. So leave it... it's not your issue.

-Richard

Post by seymour.shabow

Post by tmcw boards
http://yfrog.com/0vdiodezoomj

You sure that's not a capacitor? I'd think any kind of mod going to
the board wouldn't involve a diode.
Caps can look like that too they're used for filtering a lot of
times..... maybe it was put on there as a debouncer attempt?
-scott CARGPB#29

Looked at the schematic I don't know what that cap or diode is
attempting to fix.....

[Hans]

Nice clean boards too.... no corrosion at all that I can spot.

[tmcw boards]

Post by Hans
Nice clean boards too.... no corrosion at all that I can spot.

Yep, except for the spill that went down the left flipper side, the
machine is in nice shape for a 30 year old.

Only noticed a while ago that the solenoid fuse on the power board is
blown. I had done a solenoid test a few days ago, and they were firing
ok, so something must have happened since to blow that. Maybe me
messing about with the door coil? Anyway, that wouldn't be giving me
the issues with the switches, or not being able to move up or down in
game adjustment, would it?

Thanks for all the help, links and suggestions so far, I'll tackle any
tests anyone suggests, short of trying to change the 40-pin connector,
or removing/installing any new chips - I have a lot of stuff I want to
print out, and need to absorb that before getting in deeper, I think.

I'm not too bothered about the sound at the moment, but if I could get
into game adjustment, or even start a game, I'd be very happy. I'll
see if I can get a fuse for the solenoids tomorrow.

[firepower]

Sounds great. As you know, there is a small trimmer pot on the speech
board that lets you balance the sounds / speech. Try that, even use
some dreaded contact cleaner on that trimmer. If that helps, you
probably need to replace the trimmer with a 5K trimmer pot.

The main pot in the cab only does overall volume, once you have the
sound/speech balance set right. Try reflowing the solder on the
speaker terminals, and at the back of the sound board. Other than that,
it's typically the caps on the sound board that will need replacing. If
the speech is loud, it's unlikely to be the TDA2002 audio amp.

-Richard

Useful diagrams (also see root of sites for more info):
http://www.firepower.2ya.com/0-checklist.html Sound and speech logic.
http://www.firepowerpinball.com/downloads/SoundBoard.pdf Assembly
(layout and parts)

Post by tmcw boards
Hi,
Got a Blackout as a project recently, looking for some pointers to get
it working 100%. New to pinballs, so just finding my way atm.
After switch-on, lights and displays are all functioning correctly, as
I can see. Occasionally, the lights go out, and the machine speaks
"Blackout", which is a good sign. The switch and buttons in the coin
door function as expected; lights, solenoids and flippers work in
diagnostic mode from these switches. I've also tested the power supply
as indicated in one on the online guides, and all voltages are within
limits. Sound board test switch plays the speech sounds normally, but
the regular sounds are very low in volume, but I can hear them.
However, I can't credit-up, the switches are there, and are clean, but
no credits go up (difficult to find info for this aspect of the
machine). Also, as said above, the volume for the sounds are very low,
but volume pots on speech board and in the cabinet seem to be working
ok.
Anyone have any pointers to get me on track? Thanks.