Funhouse Rudy GI Issue

[Pinster68]

My Funhouse center backglass solenoid-controlled GI isn’t working.
Connectors good, no fuses blown. Continuity good from back box to J120.
On full GI test I get about 7.9VAC on both orange-white and orange leads. This seems odd, but only because I am comparing this to upper GI where there’s 7.9VAC on green-white, and 1.7VAC on green lead.
Everything else working great on this pin.
DMD Driver board is new Rottendog. Can’t recall if issue was the same with the stock board.
Assistance greatly appreciated.

[Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic]

Post by Pinster68
My Funhouse center backglass solenoid-controlled GI isn’t working.
Connectors good, no fuses blown. Continuity good from back box to J120.
On full GI test I get about 7.9VAC on both orange-white and orange leads. This seems odd, but only because I am comparing this to upper GI where there’s 7.9VAC on green-white, and 1.7VAC on green lead.
Everything else working great on this pin.
DMD Driver board is new Rottendog. Can’t recall if issue was the same with the stock board.
Assistance greatly appreciated.

It sounds like you are measuring the GI AC voltages to ground at J120 (or J121), is that right? You should be measuring across the white/<color> and the <color> wires: e.g., white/orange to orange; that should give more consistent results. Also try measuring across the yellow and yellow-white wires at J115 (the GI input to the power driver board).

Have you checked the header pins on the power driver board at J115 and J120/J121? A cracked solder joint could be a culprit.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

[Pinster68]

Post by Pinster68
My Funhouse center backglass solenoid-controlled GI isn’t working.
Connectors good, no fuses blown. Continuity good from back box to J120.
On full GI test I get about 7.9VAC on both orange-white and orange leads. This seems odd, but only because I am comparing this to upper GI where there’s 7.9VAC on green-white, and 1.7VAC on green lead.
Everything else working great on this pin.
DMD Driver board is new Rottendog. Can’t recall if issue was the same with the stock board.
Assistance greatly appreciated.

It sounds like you are measuring the GI AC voltages to ground at J120 (or J121), is that right? You should be measuring across the white/<color> and the <color> wires: e.g., white/orange to orange; that should give more consistent results. Also try measuring across the yellow and yellow-white wires at J115 (the GI input to the power driver board).
Have you checked the header pins on the power driver board at J115 and J120/J121? A cracked solder joint could be a culprit.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

You’re right Tony ... I was measuring to ground. White/Orange to Orange voltage is negligible, right from the board. J115 seems ok, but I’m going to dig in further. Will also check the driving transistor.

Sincere thanks for the help. I’ll report back on progress.

Brian

[Pinster68]

Post by Pinster68
My Funhouse center backglass solenoid-controlled GI isn’t working.
Connectors good, no fuses blown. Continuity good from back box to J120.
On full GI test I get about 7.9VAC on both orange-white and orange leads. This seems odd, but only because I am comparing this to upper GI where there’s 7.9VAC on green-white, and 1.7VAC on green lead.
Everything else working great on this pin.
DMD Driver board is new Rottendog. Can’t recall if issue was the same with the stock board.
Assistance greatly appreciated.

It sounds like you are measuring the GI AC voltages to ground at J120 (or J121), is that right? You should be measuring across the white/<color> and the <color> wires: e.g., white/orange to orange; that should give more consistent results. Also try measuring across the yellow and yellow-white wires at J115 (the GI input to the power driver board).
Have you checked the header pins on the power driver board at J115 and J120/J121? A cracked solder joint could be a culprit.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

You’re right Tony ... I was measuring to ground. White/Orange to Orange voltage is negligible, right from the board. J115 seems ok, but I’m going to dig in further. Will also check the driving transistor.
Sincere thanks for the help. I’ll report back on progress.
Brian

I put the old driver board back in, the one I had prior to a playfield swap, just to make sure the Rottendog wasn’t doing something funky ... same problem. I shorted the driving transistor (Q10), and the Rudy GI popped on .... yay. So I think it’s time for the logic probe. CPU must not be sending signal. Getting closer.

[LexingtonVAPin]

Post by Pinster68
no fuses blown.

I know you said that you checked the fuse, but there is one fuse that
runs the light near Rudy in that 'shade' by the trap door. It also runs
the GI's in the sign to the back right, with the three flashers. It has
a separate fuse. I would not only check that, but check for AC presence
on either side of the fuse holder.

That is also controlled by one of the Triacs. I have read that those
Triacs are virtually indestructible, but I finally had one die recently.
Not sure what is a replacement part number for that. I have a BTA12 in
my inventory that says it will work.

There is also a transistor pre-driver. You could use your digital probe
to check to see if the signal is getting to that.

[Pinster68]

Post by LexingtonVAPin

Post by Pinster68
no fuses blown.

I know you said that you checked the fuse, but there is one fuse that
runs the light near Rudy in that 'shade' by the trap door. It also runs
the GI's in the sign to the back right, with the three flashers. It has
a separate fuse. I would not only check that, but check for AC presence
on either side of the fuse holder.
That is also controlled by one of the Triacs. I have read that those
Triacs are virtually indestructible, but I finally had one die recently.
Not sure what is a replacement part number for that. I have a BTA12 in
my inventory that says it will work.
There is also a transistor pre-driver. You could use your digital probe
to check to see if the signal is getting to that.
--
http://orcalcoast.com/

I looked for a fuse by the hood light, but could not find one. The schematic shows me the path back to Q10 and I’m able to short it and get all the lights in question (hood, center/Rudy backglass GI, and three lights on rear right sign). Signal comes from U1, and that’s my next area of focus.

Incidentally, can someone tell me if all these lights are lit in attract mode?

[LexingtonVAPin]

Post by Pinster68

Post by LexingtonVAPin

Post by Pinster68
no fuses blown.

I know you said that you checked the fuse, but there is one fuse that
runs the light near Rudy in that 'shade' by the trap door. It also runs
the GI's in the sign to the back right, with the three flashers. It has
a separate fuse. I would not only check that, but check for AC presence
on either side of the fuse holder.
That is also controlled by one of the Triacs. I have read that those
Triacs are virtually indestructible, but I finally had one die recently.
Not sure what is a replacement part number for that. I have a BTA12 in
my inventory that says it will work.
There is also a transistor pre-driver. You could use your digital probe
to check to see if the signal is getting to that.
--
http://orcalcoast.com/

I looked for a fuse by the hood light, but could not find one. The schematic shows me the path back to Q10 and I’m able to short it and get all the lights in question (hood, center/Rudy backglass GI, and three lights on rear right sign). Signal comes from U1, and that’s my next area of focus.
Incidentally, can someone tell me if all these lights are lit in attract mode?

The GI strings are fuses 110 - 106. But since you shorted Q9 and they
lit up, that means the fuse is fine.

And by shorting Q9, you have proved that the Triac Q10 is good. That
was an interesting way to test it.

If this involves the light on the shade near Rudy and the GI lamps on
the back plastic with the three flashers plus the ones in the backglass
behind Rudy's face, then yes, they come on as soon as the pin is turned on.

There is a GI test in the service menu. I think it is T.6. When
activating Run, it activates all, then it goes through each string
separately from dim to on. One of the strings is Rudy and Rudy
Backglass. That should activate only the Rudy shade, the three flasher
plastic and the area behind Rudy's face.

Note that if you have converted to LED's, this dim function will not
work well or at all.

I am hoping your Q9 is bad. Using the digital probe, if you can detect
the signal to the base of Q9, but Q9 is not turning on, then Q9 should
be the problem.

Otherwise, it is either likely U1, or a trace.

[Pinster68]

Post by Pinster68

Post by LexingtonVAPin

Post by Pinster68
no fuses blown.

I know you said that you checked the fuse, but there is one fuse that
runs the light near Rudy in that 'shade' by the trap door. It also runs
the GI's in the sign to the back right, with the three flashers. It has
a separate fuse. I would not only check that, but check for AC presence
on either side of the fuse holder.
That is also controlled by one of the Triacs. I have read that those
Triacs are virtually indestructible, but I finally had one die recently.
Not sure what is a replacement part number for that. I have a BTA12 in
my inventory that says it will work.
There is also a transistor pre-driver. You could use your digital probe
to check to see if the signal is getting to that.
--
http://orcalcoast.com/

I looked for a fuse by the hood light, but could not find one. The schematic shows me the path back to Q10 and I’m able to short it and get all the lights in question (hood, center/Rudy backglass GI, and three lights on rear right sign). Signal comes from U1, and that’s my next area of focus.
Incidentally, can someone tell me if all these lights are lit in attract mode?

The GI strings are fuses 110 - 106. But since you shorted Q9 and they
lit up, that means the fuse is fine.
And by shorting Q9, you have proved that the Triac Q10 is good. That
was an interesting way to test it.
If this involves the light on the shade near Rudy and the GI lamps on
the back plastic with the three flashers plus the ones in the backglass
behind Rudy's face, then yes, they come on as soon as the pin is turned on.
There is a GI test in the service menu. I think it is T.6. When
activating Run, it activates all, then it goes through each string
separately from dim to on. One of the strings is Rudy and Rudy
Backglass. That should activate only the Rudy shade, the three flasher
plastic and the area behind Rudy's face.
Note that if you have converted to LED's, this dim function will not
work well or at all.
I am hoping your Q9 is bad. Using the digital probe, if you can detect
the signal to the base of Q9, but Q9 is not turning on, then Q9 should
be the problem.
Otherwise, it is either likely U1, or a trace.
--
http://orcalcoast.com/

Problem solved. Transistors and IC logic was fine. I apparently pinned J115 incorrectly; the lead supplying power to the Rudy GI was on pin 9 (key) and should have been on 7.

Sincere thanks to you and Tony for the guidance.

[LexingtonVAPin]

Post by Pinster68

Post by Pinster68

Post by LexingtonVAPin

Post by Pinster68
no fuses blown.

I know you said that you checked the fuse, but there is one fuse that
runs the light near Rudy in that 'shade' by the trap door. It also runs
the GI's in the sign to the back right, with the three flashers. It has
a separate fuse. I would not only check that, but check for AC presence
on either side of the fuse holder.
That is also controlled by one of the Triacs. I have read that those
Triacs are virtually indestructible, but I finally had one die recently.
Not sure what is a replacement part number for that. I have a BTA12 in
my inventory that says it will work.
There is also a transistor pre-driver. You could use your digital probe
to check to see if the signal is getting to that.
--
http://orcalcoast.com/

I looked for a fuse by the hood light, but could not find one. The schematic shows me the path back to Q10 and I’m able to short it and get all the lights in question (hood, center/Rudy backglass GI, and three lights on rear right sign). Signal comes from U1, and that’s my next area of focus.
Incidentally, can someone tell me if all these lights are lit in attract mode?

The GI strings are fuses 110 - 106. But since you shorted Q9 and they
lit up, that means the fuse is fine.
And by shorting Q9, you have proved that the Triac Q10 is good. That
was an interesting way to test it.
If this involves the light on the shade near Rudy and the GI lamps on
the back plastic with the three flashers plus the ones in the backglass
behind Rudy's face, then yes, they come on as soon as the pin is turned on.
There is a GI test in the service menu. I think it is T.6. When
activating Run, it activates all, then it goes through each string
separately from dim to on. One of the strings is Rudy and Rudy
Backglass. That should activate only the Rudy shade, the three flasher
plastic and the area behind Rudy's face.
Note that if you have converted to LED's, this dim function will not
work well or at all.
I am hoping your Q9 is bad. Using the digital probe, if you can detect
the signal to the base of Q9, but Q9 is not turning on, then Q9 should
be the problem.
Otherwise, it is either likely U1, or a trace.
--
http://orcalcoast.com/

Problem solved. Transistors and IC logic was fine. I apparently pinned J115 incorrectly; the lead supplying power to the Rudy GI was on pin 9 (key) and should have been on 7.
Sincere thanks to you and Tony for the guidance.

I am glad that you figured it out Pinster68. It looks like you had the
same side of the transformer wired to that GI string - rather than
opposite sides.

I don't understand how that string worked when you shorted Q9. If it
wasn't getting power, then it should not have worked.

But you fixed it and that is the key.