Bally King Tut--Solution for Broken Clutch?

[cjmiller]

My 1969 Bally King Tut has broken the clutch on the score motor, and a quick Google search tells me that this is a huge problem, since Bally only used this silly thing for a couple of pinballs, and they all seem to have a broken clutch.

It's past the point where I can piece it back together, so does anyone have a spare? Anyone reproducing them, or have a solution for this, or is my Tut now garbage? I've owned it for 20 years now, so I'm really hoping there's a way to fix this problem.

I guess the official name is the clutch for the score motor and trip relay assembly (Bally Part # A-3379-1)

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Pinball Muggle]

I don't know what this part looks like - guessing it might be akin to
score motor cam. Wondering if you can draw it out full size - cover tha
image with wax paper - place the broken pieces where they go on it
then use J-B Weld - after it sets up do a little triming/shaping.
Sorry - that's all I can come up with - needing rare parts is no fun.
BTW I played a NIB King Tut but that was over 40 years ago. It was th
first pin I played with a center pop-up post

--
Pinball Muggl

Steve Smith
Richmond V
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.co

[cjmiller]

That's probably not an option. It's two pieces and one rotates on the other (a slip clutch) with a spring inside, and they're made of nylon or something similar so I don't think you're going to get any epoxy or other glue to stick well enough to handle the stress. I'm thinking of making an outer sleeve out of brass, but I would much rather find the proper part and be done with it.

Here it is in the 1971 Bally Parts Catalog:

http://tinypic.com/r/70uecg/6

Here it is on the cam shaft:

http://tinypic.com/r/6fv7zb/6

Here it is in the cabinet (the white thing on the end):

http://tinypic.com/r/10nb4ma/6

Any help or leads concerning who to contact are greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

I don't know what this part looks like - guessing it might be akin to a
score motor cam. Wondering if you can draw it out full size - cover that
image with wax paper - place the broken pieces where they go on it -
then use J-B Weld - after it sets up do a little triming/shaping.
Sorry - that's all I can come up with - needing rare parts is no fun.
BTW I played a NIB King Tut but that was over 40 years ago. It was the
first pin I played with a center pop-up post.
--
Pinball Muggle
Steve Smith
Richmond VA
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[Scott McClure]

It's the long part on the left-it's not really on the score motor, it'
purely used as a reset.
[image: Loading Image...

--
Scott McClur
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.co

[cjmiller]

Right, but on King Tut and a few other games around the same time Bally had the bright idea to combine the score motor and the reset on one unit with one motor. I guess it saved them $6 on a second motor.

One motor turns a single shaft, but there are clutches installed so that the reset cams drop out until they're needed, and only the score motor cams actually revolve. If the clutch breaks, the machine does a full reset every time the score motor operates.

It's a very clever system on paper, but after 40 years the lube hardens, and the added force required to turn the shaft puts too much stress on the fragile plastic clutch. It cracks and then the machine is dead.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that if you have one of the Ballys that use this system, make sure you keep it clean, remove and replace the old lube, and make sure both halves are operating freely and independently and not causing drag on the whole system. I didn't and now I'm sadder but wiser.

I might be able to get mine back into one piece, but I can't see how it will hold up for very long. I'm really hoping someone has a spare sitting around somewhere. Maybe an entire unit from a junked machine?

It's the long part on the left-it's not really on the score motor, it's
purely used as a reset.
[image: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/images/1692/image-21.jpg]
--
Scott McClure
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[Pinball Muggle]

MAN! ..
I know after having it for 20 years you don't want to turn into a part
machine - which would be missing the most needed part.
There's got to be one out there somewhere
Better ping team em - if they can't get you pointed in the righ
direction you MAY be SOL matey. Unless you can come up with a way to t
add the second motor

--
Pinball Muggl

Steve Smith
Richmond V
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.co

[Scott McClure]

I have never seen a King Tut, so I had no idea that they had combine
the score motor with this reset bank cam.

Using it as a reset cam wasn't the greatest idea in the first place-i
does make for a cool looking reset with kind of a ripple effect, bu
making it out of what they did wasn't too smart. Combining it with th
score motor was even dumber. Of course, given that the game wa
designed to only last a few years, they didn't really care, either

I'd start by asking Brian Saunders if he might have one lying around.
If he doesn't, he might have an idea where to look. They aren't bein
reproduced. At one time, Brian told me he knew a guy who might b
interested in doing it, but it's such a low volume part, for a not a
popular manufacturer, so I doubt it ever happened.

Good luck

--
Scott McClur
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.co

[High Noon]

I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?

--Luke

[Don O Team EM!]

I remember talking to Brian at one of the shows last year about this
very topic... don't want to speak for Brian but I will... at that time
anyway, don't believe he has a source for this part. Maybe he can
chime in with better news. Oh Brian????

Don O

[b***@consolidated.net]

I'm still around boys...just not quite as often as I used to be. Busy busy...
This clutch piece is and will continue to be a much needed item as surely many others will break given some time. The plastic just gets brittle with old age and the wear and tear. That's quite a heavy piece of trip bank it's trying to turn over, so I can see why they're giving up. I'm certain I could use a half dozen right now for my own games.
I had talked with a guy in OH who had some good connections in the plastic injection industry to try and get it reproed, but I told him it would be a while before I would be able to get a good one out of a game and over to him. If somebody else wants to take this up, please be my guest!

[Mark R]

Post by b***@consolidated.net
I'm still around boys...just not quite as often as I used to be. Busy busy...
This clutch piece is and will continue to be a much needed item as surely many others will break given some time. The plastic just gets brittle with old age and the wear and tear. That's quite a heavy piece of trip bank it's trying to turn over, so I can see why they're giving up. I'm certain I could use a half dozen right now for my own games.
I had talked with a guy in OH who had some good connections in the plastic injection industry to try and get it reproed, but I told him it would be a while before I would be able to get a good one out of a game and over to him. If somebody else wants to take this up, please be my guest!

Brian, I know someone in my area that works in injection plastics. I will talk to them and see if they are willing to try and repro this cam and how much it would cost.

Mark Radl

[Pocono Pins]

Post by High Noon
I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?
--Luke

I'd be in for a few if the price was reasonable.

[cjmiller]

Post by High Noon
I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?
--Luke

Absolutely. Let me know.

[High Noon]

Post by cjmiller
Absolutely. Let me know.

Alright...I'll let everyone know when I'm done. I have to warn you though, I'm notoriously slow at projects and I want to get my On Beam working 100% before I start on the clutch (On Beam is the project I'm working on right now).

--Luke

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by cjmiller

Post by High Noon
I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?
--Luke

Absolutely. Let me know.

I need the clutch 3D specs if you have them. My brother has a #D manufacturing printer

[Thomas Fredericaa]

I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?
--Luke

[Sean Westmueller]

I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?
--Luke

[Sean Westmueller]

I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?
--Luke

Hey Luke I realize that this is 10 years old. Did you ever put together a 3 d model of the clutch?

[Mark]

Post by Sean Westmueller

I have a Bally On Beam. I have it on my todo list to draft up a 3D model of the clutch on the trip relay assembly and then have reproductions made. I planned on either sharing the 3D model so that people can have their own 3D printed or I could have some made and send them to people. Is this something you'd be interested in?
--Luke

Hey Luke I realize that this is 10 years old. Did you ever put together a 3 d model of the clutch?

Have a look at:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-reset-bank-clutch-fix/page/2#post-7627161

[s***@gmail.com]

My 1969 Bally King Tut has broken the clutch on the score motor, and a quick Google search tells me that this is a huge problem, since Bally only used this silly thing for a couple of pinballs, and they all seem to have a broken clutch. It's past the point where I can piece it back together, so does anyone have a spare? Anyone reproducing them, or have a solution for this, or is my Tut now garbage? I've owned it for 20 years now, so I'm really hoping there's a way to fix this problem. I guess the official name is the clutch for the score motor and trip relay assembly (Bally Part # A-3379-1) Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I'd be in if someone makes them. I'm fine right now (furiously knocking on wood) but who knows for how long.

[cjmiller]

I'll post this update so the next person can search and maybe find this thread.

I've got mine back together thanks to epoxy. I have doubts about how permanent this solution is, but if the machine is working correctly, there is very little stress on this part.

The problem is that my outer piece (closest to the motor) needs to ride on the inboard piece, and there is enough play in the two pieces that it keeps moving away from the motor (so that more and more of the outer piece is in contact with the inner piece) every time the machine cycles. Eventually the overlap gets too big, and the outer piece no longer moves freely because of the friction where it's in contact with the inner piece. Once that happens the clutch is always engaged, the machine doesn't do a reset, and the motor runs constantly.

(I know none of that makes sense unless you're looking at the piece)

I don't know how to compensate for this, and it seems to jam after about 25 or 30 cycles. At that point you need to open the machine and slide the outer piece back towards the motor so it's free again. We're talking about 1/16th of an inch, tops. Lubrication actually makes the problem worse, since the slicker the pieces are the more easily they can jam together.

My current theory is that *maybe* the problem isn't the clutch at all, and maybe it's the tab on the relay that actuates the clutch. Maybe that tab needs to be bent at a slight angle so that it gives the clutch a little push towards the motor every cycle (or maybe mine is bent so that it's currently pushing the wrong way). Assuming my pieces hold together that's the next thing I'm looking at, but I want to see how my current fix works first.

Theory number 2 is that the design was just crap and it did this even when it was new.

[David Gersic]

Post by cjmiller
The problem is that my outer piece (closest to the motor) needs to ride on the inboard piece, and there is enough play in the two pieces that it keeps moving away from the motor (so that more and more of the outer piece is in contact with the inner piece) every time the machine cycles. Eventually the overlap gets too big, and the outer piece no longer moves freely because of the friction where it's in contact with the inner piece. Once that happens the clutch is always engaged, the machine doesn't do a reset, and the motor runs constantly.
(I know none of that makes sense unless you're looking at the piece)

Can you post a video of this?

Post by cjmiller
I don't know how to compensate for this, and it seems to jam after about 25 or 30 cycles.

I'm thinking that shimming the part(s) to compensate for sloppy fitting
possibly due to age and wear may help.